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Conflict in the Middle East

Has anyone changed their mind from what they have read on here?

661 replies

mollyfolk · 15/12/2023 23:33

we’ve argued a lot. We’ve backed up our arguments with lots of proof. Has anyone changed their mind or viewpoint - I’m just interested?

it would be lovely if we didn’t argue here and just let everyone state their views.

I’ve spent most of my life in Ireland, where you’d be hard pressed, in the present day, to meet someone who doesn’t agree that the Israeli authorities treat Palestinian’s terribly. It wouldn’t be controversial here to say - isn’t it awful what’s happening in Gaza - in any situation whether when I lived in the UK it was a lot more controversial and wouldn’t be a suitable thing to mention in work for example.

I haven’t changed my mind but I’m a lot more educated about anti semitism and have more understanding of the viewpoint of people who support the Israeli government.

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Anotherdayanotherdiet · 17/12/2023 18:20

I’ve had a look- I do think this is a (terrible, terrible) joke, and trolling that serves to show how people literally will believe absolutely anything, no matter how ludicrous

A jolly jape eh?
If so it may backfire. Settlements are built in the West Bank so why would it be ludicrous to imagine settlers are planning to built in Gaza?

miniegg3 · 17/12/2023 18:18

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ as it looked like the work of a previously banned poster.

Honestly, I've given up talking to certain people in here.. they seriously need to get a life or hobby or something rather than sitting on these posts all day, bleating on about how israel can do no right, and palastine no wrong 🙄 like it even fucking matters who has what opinion in the grand scheme of things.

Parkingt111 · 17/12/2023 18:03

@plusjamais it is true. You can check their Instagram page as it is still there.
I have actually asked mumsnet to take the post down with the image as I don't want to give them anymore publicity than they have already been getting and not because it isn't true. It's extremely poor taste to post such things at a time when there is already such heightened tensions

And I should add the reason I know that is their Instagram page is when you go on their website at the bottom they have a link to their different social media accounts. And if you click the instagram icon that is the account it takes you too

So it's not a fake account either

25milesfromhome · 17/12/2023 17:57

And @Livinginanotherworld as you’re so keen to demand I answer your questions, are you not so keen to answer my question about who you think I am and who exactly you mean by “you”?

Parkingt111 · 17/12/2023 17:56

25milesfromhome · 17/12/2023 17:53

I’ve had a look- I do think this is a (terrible, terrible) joke, and trolling that serves to show how people literally will believe absolutely anything, no matter how ludicrous. If you read some of the comments, they reinforce the “Jews are greedy liars and thieves, no wonder they’re so hated and btw, burn in hell” trope, so it kind of plays into that.

Yes, it's really bad taste.
I should clarify from what I could see there was nothing on their website where you could for example buy a plot or reserve it.

And yes some of the comments are not only unacceptable but blatantly anti-semitic.
It just serves to rile people up even more

plusjamais · 17/12/2023 17:56

If it's on their website I can't see it. The original source seems to be the actual agents Twitter account BUT their account only has 9 tweets (joined this year), which is suspicious in itself for a company that's supposedly been operating since 2007.

On this occasion I do hope it's just another example of the misinformation being spread on some of these threads because...yikes! And obviously if it is misinformation PP will ask for the comments to be deleted. If it's true, then I have no words, it's appalling.

25milesfromhome · 17/12/2023 17:53

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

I’ve had a look- I do think this is a (terrible, terrible) joke, and trolling that serves to show how people literally will believe absolutely anything, no matter how ludicrous. If you read some of the comments, they reinforce the “Jews are greedy liars and thieves, no wonder they’re so hated and btw, burn in hell” trope, so it kind of plays into that.

Parkingt111 · 17/12/2023 17:47

@stormy4319trevor it's not great but as I said the company specialises in building settlements, and there are alot of people opposed to that so I'm sure there will be to this aswell hopefully

It seems to be done to provoke in my opinion and it has worked

stormy4319trevor · 17/12/2023 17:45

Good grief. What a bizarre thing for the company to display on their social media.

Livinginanotherworld · 17/12/2023 17:43

Parkingt111 · 17/12/2023 17:32

@kesstrel it's a company called Harey Zahav.
They are a real estate company that primarily focuses on building settlements

They have the pictures on their social media and they haven't taken them down

Thank you I couldn’t find the link to post it again. This is what I’ve seen.

Parkingt111 · 17/12/2023 17:36

I won't put up more as I don't want to unintentionally promote them but it's really not good what they are doing

Parkingt111 · 17/12/2023 17:33

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Parkingt111 · 17/12/2023 17:32

@kesstrel it's a company called Harey Zahav.
They are a real estate company that primarily focuses on building settlements

They have the pictures on their social media and they haven't taken them down

OuiOuiKitty · 17/12/2023 17:25

WibbleWobbleFlop · 17/12/2023 17:19

I'm not looking for a fight either. I'm trying to point out that Israeli citizens are human beings worthy of our support, just as Palestinian citizens are human beings worthy of our support. Polls do not include reasoning or depth, and they should not be used to taint an entire nation's worth of people.

Again you are the one passing judgement if you feel that the polls 'taint an entire nations worth of people'. It doesn't seen like Israelis see this conflict as 'tainting' themselves. They see it as a not backing down and a show of strength in times of threat.

kesstrel · 17/12/2023 17:24

Why are Israel already marketing brand new beach villas in Gaza to settlers ?hidden agenda ?
This is so ludicrous I’m inclined to think it’s an incredibly poorly thought out joke made in bad taste.

I found an obviously fake graphic on Reddit, supposedly "found on instagram". I just checked back twenty minutes after looking for it, and the moderator has already deleted it. Some posters here seem extremely susceptible to ludicrous conspiracy theories/misinformation. "Hidden agenda" indeed.

floodlightonwhatisright · 17/12/2023 17:24

braticus · 17/12/2023 13:59

@floodlightonwhatisright What is antisemitic about believing everyone should have equal rights?

MN deleted your post so they agreed with me.

WibbleWobbleFlop · 17/12/2023 17:19

OuiOuiKitty · 17/12/2023 17:16

OK great. I'm not looking for a fight nor am I looking to be accused of saying things that I am not. I'm simply making the point that from polls it seems that unlike your assertions the average Israeli does seem to be represented in this conflict by the IDF and by the government that they elected last year. The polls basically say keep doing what you are doing which seems like support to me.

I'm not looking for a fight either. I'm trying to point out that Israeli citizens are human beings worthy of our support, just as Palestinian citizens are human beings worthy of our support. Polls do not include reasoning or depth, and they should not be used to taint an entire nation's worth of people.

OuiOuiKitty · 17/12/2023 17:16

WibbleWobbleFlop · 17/12/2023 17:07

The average Israeli is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If their government stops bombing, Hamas will wreak terror on Israel again as they have already clearly stated is their intent. I have yet to hear an alternative way to stop Hamas, as rockets are still being fired and attacks are being carried out daily. They are likely in fear that if they lessen Palestinian casualties, they will face further atrocities like that of October 7th. The poll does not give them an alternative method of stopping Hamas, it is essentially "fight back" or "roll over".

OK great. I'm not looking for a fight nor am I looking to be accused of saying things that I am not. I'm simply making the point that from polls it seems that unlike your assertions the average Israeli does seem to be represented in this conflict by the IDF and by the government that they elected last year. The polls basically say keep doing what you are doing which seems like support to me.

WibbleWobbleFlop · 17/12/2023 17:07

OuiOuiKitty · 17/12/2023 16:32

I didn't make up the polls, if you think that the results of the polls make Israelis look like 'blood thirsty monsters' those are your words and your judgements, not mine. I didn't pass any judgement on them, just stated that it seems from the polls that Netanyahu and the IDF represent the 'average Israeli' in this conflict. Elected governments usually do represent the 'average person'.

The average Israeli is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If their government stops bombing, Hamas will wreak terror on Israel again as they have already clearly stated is their intent. I have yet to hear an alternative way to stop Hamas, as rockets are still being fired and attacks are being carried out daily. They are likely in fear that if they lessen Palestinian casualties, they will face further atrocities like that of October 7th. The poll does not give them an alternative method of stopping Hamas, it is essentially "fight back" or "roll over".

25milesfromhome · 17/12/2023 17:06

Livinginanotherworld · 17/12/2023 16:39

This may be true to you, but so many Jewish communities are happy and live side by side with many people from many different races and religions, they work together, go to school together, socialise together, they teach each other about their rich and varied life’s tapestries. They are friends. Why can it not be this way for you ?
Many cultures are split all over the world, what is wrong with that ? Do you want all the Muslims in one place ? All the Christian’s in one place, never to mix and be friends ? This is one thing I’ll never understand, it’s kind of like reverse racism that is spouted by certain people on here.
There are streets in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem that Palestinian people are not allowed to walk down, how fucked up is that ? how can one society inflict that on another society ? That’s sick !

Why can it not be this way for you ?

You keep saying “you” as if you know who I am and what I think - who do you think I am?

ETA: good on you though for having a go at lecturing a diasporic Jew on Jewish diasporic communities and assimilation.

25milesfromhome · 17/12/2023 16:58

Livinginanotherworld · 17/12/2023 16:47

But you didn’t even bother to answer the questions did you. I’ll ask again,
Why don’t the people of Gaza deserve their own state and human rights ?
Why do you think you deserve that right but others don’t !
Why are Israel already marketing brand new beach villas in Gaza to settlers ?
hidden agenda ?

Why don’t the people of Gaza deserve their own state and human rights ?
They do.

Why do you think you deserve that right but others don’t !
I don’t think that. Everybody deserves that right.

Why are Israel already marketing brand new beach villas in Gaza to settlers ?hidden agenda ?
This is so ludicrous I’m inclined to think it’s an incredibly poorly thought out joke made in bad taste. It’s extremely offensive and I’d have to look into it
more. Obviously, if it is real, it’s appalling, but it’s not “Israel” as a whole doing this, is it? Just like it’s not “the Palestinians” as a whole being responsible for the actions of Hamas. I can make this distinction so why can’t you?

Livinginanotherworld · 17/12/2023 16:47

25milesfromhome · 17/12/2023 16:38

I forgot to quote the post I was replying to a few posts above, but it was in reply to these absolutely moronic ramblings.

But you didn’t even bother to answer the questions did you. I’ll ask again,
Why don’t the people of Gaza deserve their own state and human rights ?
Why do you think you deserve that right but others don’t !
Why are Israel already marketing brand new beach villas in Gaza to settlers ?
hidden agenda ?

OuiOuiKitty · 17/12/2023 16:43

OuiOuiKitty · 17/12/2023 16:32

I didn't make up the polls, if you think that the results of the polls make Israelis look like 'blood thirsty monsters' those are your words and your judgements, not mine. I didn't pass any judgement on them, just stated that it seems from the polls that Netanyahu and the IDF represent the 'average Israeli' in this conflict. Elected governments usually do represent the 'average person'.

After a week-long pause in hostilities in November, more than three-quarters of Israelis said the offensive should resume without adjustments that would reduce either Palestinian civilian casualties or international pressure, according to a poll conducted by the Israel Democracy Institute.

^^ case in point. More than 75% of Israelis don't want adjustments to reduce Palestinian casualties.

Only 10% of Israelis thought the army was using too much firepower, according to a Tel Aviv University poll.

Again a very small number think Israel are using too much firepower.

I think that shows that the average Israeli is pretty supportive of the IDF and Netanyahu in this conflict as I stated.

Livinginanotherworld · 17/12/2023 16:39

25milesfromhome · 17/12/2023 16:12

There is nowhere else on earth where people from differing faiths and races don’t live side by side with equal rights except Israel, why is this ? Why do you think you deserve that right, but no other people do ?

Only someone who is worryingly fixated on their hatred of Israel and its people
to the exclusion of all other countries in the world could possibly say this with a straight face.

Jewish people all around the world seem to happily live in many other communities, and co-exist with their friends and neighbours, if they are happy, why can’t you ?

If you honestly don’t know or understand why the Jewish diasporic community is so wide and varied and what has led to this, I don’t think you actually want to.

This may be true to you, but so many Jewish communities are happy and live side by side with many people from many different races and religions, they work together, go to school together, socialise together, they teach each other about their rich and varied life’s tapestries. They are friends. Why can it not be this way for you ?
Many cultures are split all over the world, what is wrong with that ? Do you want all the Muslims in one place ? All the Christian’s in one place, never to mix and be friends ? This is one thing I’ll never understand, it’s kind of like reverse racism that is spouted by certain people on here.
There are streets in the West Bank and in East Jerusalem that Palestinian people are not allowed to walk down, how fucked up is that ? how can one society inflict that on another society ? That’s sick !

25milesfromhome · 17/12/2023 16:38

Livinginanotherworld · 17/12/2023 15:30

And we all know that Israel will not entertain a two state solution don’t we, so they will be denied it.

There is nowhere else on earth where people from differing faiths and races don’t live side by side with equal rights except Israel, why is this ? Why do you think you deserve that right, but no other people do ? Why don’t the people of Gaza deserve their own state and their own human rights ? Why are they already marketing beach villas in Gaza to the settlers ?

Jewish people all around the world seem to happily live in many other communities, and co-exist with their friends and neighbours, if they are happy, why can’t you ?

Can you actually answer any of these questions ?

I forgot to quote the post I was replying to a few posts above, but it was in reply to these absolutely moronic ramblings.