Has anyone changed their mind from what they have read on here?

Agreed @PeasfullPerson

@PeasfullPerson
Completeiy agree.

I’m completely on board with efforts to stop anti-semitism and Islamophobia. However, I don’t want to live in a country where people are vilified for daring to have a different perspective, and I think it’s important to check we don’t swing too far the other way. We need to protect vulnerable groups while also protecting our democracy and right to free speech.

I’m pleased Suella is gone. I don’t want us to end up like this.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/12/18/we-know-who-created-syrias-torture-programme-and-how

Thanks

@whattheactualfrog there's Tell MAMA, as mentioned a few posts ago, aa well as MEND and others.

I don’t know if there is an equivalent to CST for anti-Muslim hate but will of course do the same if I am pointed in the right direction

@Thereissomelight of course it should be reported and too PREVENT.
That's what they are there for.

I’m glad to see they’re not an extremist organisation but rather the reverse.

Because I was going to query if any posters were reporting the Islamophobia on these threads to an external organisation.

They're an interesting organisation Weddingpuzzle. They do research into extremism and radicalisation as well with a view that this will benefit society as a whole as well as the Jewish community.

Thanks @whattheactualfrog I have had a look at what the CST do, it's really interesting. For people who don't have time to read the main gist from wiki is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Security_Trust#:

Their online work is outlined as - 'The CST has been active in monitoring and attempting to combat extremist activity online. In 2019, the CST recorded 1,805 incidents of antisemitic abuse, 697 of which were online.'

This is interesting piece of work too: 'In 2012, the CST provided the model for a new anti-Islamophobia project, Tell MAMA(run by interfaith organisation Faith Matters), with which it now works closely.'

So as @LolaSmiles states they too see it as reasonable to work on systemic reasons for terror - including providing modelling for the cycle of terror, hate, and radicalisation.

whattheactualfrog
I sympathise with you.

I don't agree that questioning whether military actions of one group will prompt a change of agenda in another group (who have publicly documented their hatred and desire to harm) is a discussion that some people should be trying to clamp down on though.

It is reasonable to discuss the cycle of terror, hate, war, radicalisation in any conflict, including the one in Israel/Gaza.

CST are far more experienced in dealing with antisemitism than Mumsnet so no I don’t agree. Where I see blatant antisemitism I will also report it to them, same as the pp. In the same way if I saw something I thought was criminal I would report it to the police I wouldn’t check with Mumsnet first.

CST meticulously records incidents of antisemitism and charts trends. They also have initiatives to try and combat antisemitism, and they report directly to the police if necessary. The fact that Jewish people and organisations have to do all this should appal people more than it does.

I agree but unfortunately I don’t believe it’s an isolated incident, others have referenced doing the same earlier in the thread. This poster was just honest enough to tell us what she’d done in real time.

anyway I’ve shared my thoughts on this now and won’t be commenting again on this thread.

What exactly will these external bodies that people are sending posters comments going to do with them? What's the plan?

Mumsnet agreed with you the post has been deleted. That however doesn't deal with the issue of posts been screenshot and shared to an external body to make a complaint about. It sets a bad precedent. We need to trust the mumsnet moderators to carry out their role effectively and if we don't we should not be posting here. We have all signed up to the site, mumsnet has our contact details they should be the people we direct complaints to not external bodies. If something like that happens again I for one will no longer be posting here.

Even the posters I strongly disagreed on this conflict I usually came away either having learnt something, even if it was something about myself and my own reactions
Same here. I've found some interesting resources, including resources from positions I wouldn't have necessarily seen otherwise.

What I find even more is that I feel stronger now than I did before that the way to peace and the way to tackle terrorism and hate is not bombs and military action. I don't believe you can break generational cycles of hatred with military campaigns. I don't believe that people who are filled with hatred towards certain groups and have a well-documented desire to harm certain groups will change their minds because of a bombing campaign.
I've also come to the conclusion that unless people on all 'sides' and none are willing to feel uncomfortable and put civilians first, there's no route to peace.

I’m not denying your feelings but was that the best way to deal with it? Is this what it’s come to now where posters are reporting on each other to external bodies?

I used to take comfort from coming here - it’s a community of people and I found solidarity in posters who shared the same views I did. Even the posters I strongly disagreed on this conflict I usually came away either having learnt something, even if it was something about myself and my own reactions.

now though, I question whether it would be better if MN just closes this Conflict board permanently. Half the posters think antisemitism is rife and the other half feel frustrated and harassed.

Report away. I have the right to my feelings and to report - just like everyone has.

I felt intimidated and threatened by that post. Suggesting that harm may happen or will not stop harm to Jewish people due to Israeli military action is not appropriate for MN in my opinion.

Thereissomelight Desertrose2023
Thank you.
We should be able to discuss and disagree and clarify without having things twisted.

Some people will believe that harmful ideologies can be eradicated with military campaigns. That is their right to hold that position.

Others do not believe that adherents to harmful ideologies will stop having harmful beliefs and goals if enough bombs are dropped. That is their right to hold that position and does not indicate agreement with the harmful ideology.

It's not unreasonable for someone to take either of those positions on any conflict and it reasonable to expect discussion and disagreement to be in good faith.

Hear hear

And I’ve reported you to Mumsnet.

The poster clarified what she meant when challenged. We are meant to be grown ups on this board and should be able to challenge each other directly if we believe someone has said something inappropriate. You are not a moderator.

what you are doing is intimidating another person and trying to censor protected speech and legitimate debate.

Dulra
I agree with you. It's why my position hasn't changed on this conflict.
Bombs and military action is not going to bring about peace.
People who hold hateful views are not going to stop holding those views if enough bombs are dropped.
Groups who hate another group of people and wish them harm are not going to stop being full of hate if enough bombs are dropped.

Unless the cycle stops, the harm will continue and continue and continue, each time more civilians will be killed and traumatised. Different leaders on each side will come and go, new groups with new names will appear with the same hateful ideology.

Like you I think there needs to be some neutral involvement from global organisations to broker peace and it's going to take time.

It will absolutely feel uncomfortable, achieving peace is hard, negotiating with your enemy is extremely difficult. It took years to bring the different sides together in Northern Ireland and it could have failed many many times. It was not easy to work with those who had a part to play in killing your community. It took a lot of strength for the Queen to shake the hand of Martin McGuinness but she knew how much that would mean to the nationalist community and those gestures matter.

I do think Israel is a long way off from this and Hamas at the moment can not be trusted, they are also not a centralised power so agreeing something with them such as a ceasefire will not mean all their members (for want of a better word) would comply. It is hard to know how much control "the Hamas leaders" have. Israel though do need to bring in a neutral entity to help them broker peace and to identify who they can within Hamas make any reasonable progress with. But like I said it is hard and it will take time but agreeing a ceasefire is the first tentative step. I don't think they have any other option tbh.

A belated thank you @Parkingt111 I appreciate your compassion, I’m really sorry people you know in Gaza are affected and here’s hoping for an increase in empathy and that things do get better. It is hard and it will be hard but I believe they can.