IDF shoot hostages in Gaza after 'mistakenly identifying them as a threat'

@Pizdietz Everyone and their uncle has condemned Hamas at this point. Israel is committing daily, ongoing atrocities which is why the red cross have mentioned them more.

What would you have them do? Maybe every time the Red Cross comments on yet another atrocity committed by Israel, they could include a caveat that says Hamas are also bad.

The slaughter and humanitarian disaster could have so easily been avoided by learning lessons from the “war on terror” which has successfully encouraged a terrorist mindset and sense of victimisation in certain groups ever since.

I don’t know, it’s almost as if some people have forgotten how the hostages needing assistance from the Red Cross got there in the first place.

The slaugher and humanitarian disaster could have so easily been avoided as well by not carrying out a terrorist attack. All so needless.

You're right, it would be hard to find anything bad to say about Hamas.

@OuiOuiKitty Yes, and Israel knows all this. At this point they're just throwing disingenuous accusations at the wall to see what sticks.

Yeah, it's kind of obvious that it's much more likely that you will criticise the side that has been killing civillians in their hundreds daily more than the side that isn't. How many times can you tread the same water with Hamas whereas Israel are committing new atrocities on the daily.

I find Israel criticising the Red Crescent kind of gross tbh. Israel created this humanitarian disaster on purpose. One where there is no food, no medicine, no water, no healthcare, feck all infrastructure and it isn't safe to move anywhere. Then they get offended that the Red Cross say that they can't help hostages, when they can't help anyone properly right now. Israel say that they are targeting areas where Hamas are, it stands to reason that the hostages are where Hamas are. Israel won't stop bombing and executing people in those areas, they are shooting people waving white flags, bombing ambulances, driving over people, have destroyed pretty much all healthcare in those areas but then have the audacity to say 'well why won't you go there, do you not care about the hostages, you don't care about Israelis'. You would have to be a madman to willingly go to those areas. They aren't safe for anyone. Israel are shooting anyone and anything, a fifth of Israeli soldiers deaths have been them shooting each other. It's utterly insane to expect aid workers to walk into that.

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) is an impartial, neutral and independent organization whose exclusively humanitarian mission is to protect the lives and dignity of victims of armed conflict and other situations of violence and to provide them with assistance.

Maybe less tweeting, more action, lots for them to be getting on with.

Not to mention starving them in their millions.

"Out of 187 tweets published by the main Red Cross accounts on Twitter (now known as X), including those by ICRC president Mirjana Spoljaric Egger and director-general Robert Mardini, 77% were focused on criticizing Israel, expressly or by implication. Only 7% of the tweets criticized Hamas."

Ffs. Out of Israel and Hamas, which one is currently slaughtering people in their tens of thousands??

@SomeCatFromJapan yes, I don’t know why I thought responding to a request for a source with a source would make the slightest bit of difference at all.

...although UN Watch is similarly wary

https://unwatch.org/report-red-cross-statements-overwhelmingly-biased-against-israel/

I suppose that means this is also all lies, lies, lies.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-774231

Cross posted, but I can see from the following responses that the automatic assumption is that because it’s Israeli people- family members of hostages talking about their experiences-talking to Israeli news sources (as other news sources will decline to report on it), it must be lies. Says it all really.

You said it had been widely reported though. It hasn't been, that was my point.

Widely reported in Israel, the country where it happened. That of course disqualifies it from being believed, as has now very amply been illustrated.

@25milesfromhome unfortunately as that is Israeli media and Israeli victims, we'll be told it's not credible shortly.

There are several sources for this- here’s one, from interviews with hostages’ families:
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-777223

Roni and Simona, the parents of Doron Steinbrecher who was kidnapped by Hamas terrorists from Kfar Azza on October 7, were invited to a meeting with the Red Cross this past week.
Doron needs a medication she takes daily and her parents thought that the Red Cross was finally willing to transfer the medication to her, but instead, they were sat down and reprimanded by representatives of the Red Cross.
“Think about the Palestinian side,” the representatives of the Red Cross told Simona, according to KAN. “It’s hard for the Palestinians, they’re being bombed.”

The family of Elma Avraham, an 84-year-old woman who was released during the ceasefire, told Israeli media that the Red Cross had refused to bring Avraham the medicine she needed. Immediately after Avraham was released, she was rushed to the hospital in critical condition. Since then, her condition has improved.

You said it had been widely reported though. It hasn't been, that was my point.

I have no skin in the game at all.

I do not believe that an administration capable of planning and executing warfare that will undoubtedly result in the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians is more likely to be telling the truth than a humanitarian aid charity currently losing the lives of volunteers, something that has not been denied by any parties.

You said it's been widely reported but the link you shared is an Israeli news source.

Your response just illustrates the problem even attempting to have any sort of discussion. If your starting point is that Israel is lying, the IDF is lying, Israelis are all lying, Israeli press are all liars.... well, there's not a lot more to say, is there?

This should have said:

I googled and the results were almost exclusively syndicated versions of the article you shared (these feature the original piece credited to the original source and are not reported independently) in non mainstream, poorly checked sites designed to generate ad revenue not report news (sorry if you already know what syndicated news sites are and that's all obvious to you already).

You said it's been widely reported but the link you shared is an Israeli news source.

I googled almost exclusively syndicated versions of the article you shared (these feature the original piece credited to the original source and are not reported independently) in non mainstream, poorly checked sites designed to generate ad revenue not report news (sorry if you already know what syndicated news sites are and that's all obvious to you already).

I did find this in an independently written Newsweek article:

According to Israeli media, the parents of one hostage were told by an ICRC representative to think of the Palestinians too, when they asked about getting medical help to their daughter.

Israeli media is a biased source, now more than ever. This is not third party or neutral reporting. It has not been widely reported as fact at all.

What's the source for this? That hostages' family members are being berated by Red Cross volunteers, I mean?

It's been relatively widely reported:
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/381694

The released hostages are now actually suing the Red Cross over the medication issue:
https://twitter.com/EFischberger/status/1737766904008179946

I'm shocked you say it's 'hard to say' who is more likely to be lying in this specific instance tbh.

I've been shocked at many posts on here too. So it goes.

With respect, your whole post here illustrates how we are all projecting our own narrative (because that's all we can do, as outside observers). You tell me I've imagined or invented the threads many of us here have been contributing to over the past few weeks. You misinterpret (I won't say "twist": I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you genuinely misunderstand me) what I say about social media. You insist that you know better than I do how I feel about the current situation, and what I care about. You assume I don't share your fears for the future.

I'm not "unable to criticise Israel" at all. I just find your criticism questionable. Apparently that makes me "goady"?

Setting aside all the arguments we keep going round in circles on, I'd have thought Israel is treading more carefully than you think it is, not least because Hamas aren't the only Jihadi organisation to want Israel off the map.

The level of projection you use with me here seems to be the level of projection you use when assessing the actions of Israel as devious, moronic and heartless.

Goodness me.

refusing to attempt to get them medication, berating family members that "Palestinians have it worse"

What's the source for this? That hostages' family members are being berated by Red Cross volunteers, I mean?

I'm shocked you say it's 'hard to say' who is more likely to be lying in this specific instance tbh.

It suggests that you yourself are looking at the situation through a very biased lens.

I have no skin in the game. I can, however, see the mass destruction and huge loss of civilian lives. Hamas 7.10 attack was heinous. Disgusting. Abhorrent. So too are Israel's actions.

To defend Israel both causing mass civilian casualties in the tens of thousands, and excuse them not allowing aid to those they are injuring and killing, is baffling to me.

Who do you think is more likely to be lying - a power currently engaged in warfare with accusations of war crimes, or aid agencies trying to get aid to civilians in need?

Honestly hard to say in this case, the Red Cross hasn't behaved in an impartial way regarding the hostages (refusing to attempt to get them medication, berating family members that "Palestinians have it worse"), and given that much of the staff will be made up of local people they will have their views.

Again, I can't say for certain who is or isn't telling the truth. The point is that none of us can, but many posters offer their views with the kind of certainty that would suggest otherwise. They have a particular opinion of Israel and everything is seen through that lens.

It’s a backlash defensive narrative and deployed rather late to have much of an effect on the historical record as the UN have been documenting since the start the blocking of humanitarian aid by Israel. There is also the not so small matter of Israel PM and Minister of Defence public announcements using words like “total siege” and “no humanitarian aid goes in”