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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Conflict Israel and other nearby countries

483 replies

EasterIssland · 09/12/2023 22:26

Israel is at war with Gaza. However , this has dragged other countries in the area as well.
weve heard about the problems in West Bank (there is a thread) but also Lebanon where civilians have been killed and journalists have been targeted and killed

they’ve also attacked several airports in Siria.

ive read in the past there was a conflict as well with Yemen and read now this” Yemen's Houthis warn they will target all ships headed to Israel”

it doesn’t sound that post this war living in Israel is going to be safer than before

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/yemens-houthis-say-they-will-target-ships-red-sea-en-route-israel-2023-12-09/

Houthi military helicopter flies over the Galaxy Leader cargo ship in the Red Sea in this photo released November 20, 2023. Houthi Military Media/Handout via REUTERS/File Photo

Yemen's Houthis warn they will target all ships headed to Israel

Yemen's Houthi movement said on Saturday they would target all ships heading to Israel, regardless of their nationality, and warned all international shipping companies against dealing with Israeli ports.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/yemens-houthis-say-they-will-target-ships-red-sea-en-route-israel-2023-12-09/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
67
Gettingcolder · 24/12/2023 09:29

stomachameleon · 13/12/2023 23:11

I thought this was interesting... if it works! www.reddit.com/r/Israel/s/x109uFfPLF

It's a visual on the surrounding countries.

I wish more people would see this and understand. All we hear about is the displacement of the Palestinians, not the Jews.

braticus · 23/12/2023 22:37

@EasterIssland Good to see some EU countries standing up to the USA.

stomachameleon · 23/12/2023 22:37

@FOJN I don't disagree with you there. That's the last thing we want or need. Any of us.

FOJN · 23/12/2023 22:27

stomachameleon · 23/12/2023 22:21

apple.news/AXBVhAoUGTMqYTHbA11s1MA

Cameron talking about Iran and 'sending Tehran a message.

Cameron Foreign Secretary vows to take tough line on Tehran’s meddling in the Middle East

The irony.

US has been chomping at the bit for a war with Iran for years and it looks like we're being warmed up to keep them company.

Do our leaders even know the meaning of de-escalation?

stomachameleon · 23/12/2023 22:21

apple.news/AXBVhAoUGTMqYTHbA11s1MA

Cameron talking about Iran and 'sending Tehran a message.

OP posts:
Kendodd · 17/12/2023 09:17

with regard Yeman attacking commercal shipping in the Red Sea, who is selling them these wepons? I don't see that any country capable of producing wepons such as this benefiting from these attacks.

BelleHathor · 16/12/2023 19:56

EasterIssland · 16/12/2023 14:31

.

Yes, one of the biggest freight companies has suspended it ships sailing via the Red Sea.

I must say, quite a clever tactic. Shipping companies will lose money, shipments will be delayed, prices will rise. The businesses will pressure the government (who let's face it don't listen to ordinary people). The Houthis have raised the stakes, for governments silently standing by.
https://news.sky.com/story/shipping-giant-maersk-suspends-all-journeys-through-red-sea-following-attacks-on-vessels-13031107

Shipping giants suspend all journeys through Red Sea following attacks on vessels

It comes following a string of missile and drone attacks claimed by Yemen's Houthi rebels. The group has vowed to target ships in an attempt to pressure Israel to stop bombing the Gaza Strip.

https://news.sky.com/story/shipping-giant-maersk-suspends-all-journeys-through-red-sea-following-attacks-on-vessels-13031107

Original poster
EasterIssland · 16/12/2023 14:31

.

Conflict Israel and other nearby countries
OP posts:
Sussurations · 16/12/2023 08:30

That’s a good article. Thanks.

Israel within its own borders is a democracy
and I don’t see how anyone can argue otherwise.

I don’t think you will find many, if any, posters on here defending Israel’s approach to the West Bank. I agree that this has apartheid-like characteristics, although in general I think
the use of the word ‘apartheid’ is emotive and inaccurate.

Parker231 · 16/12/2023 08:14

Sussurations · 15/12/2023 18:48

So since in your view, if Israel isn’t a democracy (to be clear, I don’t agree) what would be different if it was one?

https://www.vox.com/23924319/israel-palestine-apartheid-meaning-history-debate

worth reading this article if you think Israel is a democracy.

A crowd of pro-Palestinian demonstrators holding flags and signs that say “End Israeli Apartheid.”

The argument that Israel practices apartheid, explained

Some human rights groups have reached this conclusion based on how the crime is defined in international law.

https://www.vox.com/23924319/israel-palestine-apartheid-meaning-history-debate

Sussurations · 16/12/2023 07:49

Arab citizens have the same legal rights as Jewish citizens.

There are socioeconomic and discrimination problems. Israel isn’t unique in that. Look
at the US, for example, and its significant problems with voter disenfranchisement and disproportionate incarceration of its black citizens. It’s still very much a democracy.

stomachameleon · 15/12/2023 19:00

I am not sure on the debate angle if it's just 'I am right and you are wrong'?

Parker231 · 15/12/2023 18:52

Sussurations · 15/12/2023 18:48

So since in your view, if Israel isn’t a democracy (to be clear, I don’t agree) what would be different if it was one?

Israel operates as an apartheid state

mondriansdog · 15/12/2023 18:51

Equal rights and human rights for all citizens. Regardless of religion and ethnic background. Laws that don't discriminate against people of certain ethnic backgrounds.

Sussurations · 15/12/2023 18:48

So since in your view, if Israel isn’t a democracy (to be clear, I don’t agree) what would be different if it was one?

mondriansdog · 15/12/2023 18:36

Israel is a not democracy. If people disagree that is fine but they are wrong.

Xenia · 15/12/2023 18:27

Israel is a democracy. Yemen is appalling. If people disagree that is fine but they are wrong.

mondriansdog · 15/12/2023 17:42

@Sussurations A democracy is a system of government based on freedom and equality between people, a fair and free society.

"the belief in freedom and equality between people, or a system of government* based on this belief, in which power is either held by elected representatives or directly by the people themselves"*

Here is a database of discriminatory laws in Israel that disfavour non-Jewish Israelis:

https://www.adalah.org/en/law/index

Discriminatory Laws in Israel - Adalah

Adalah (Justice in Arabic) is the first non-profit, non- sectarian Palestinian-run legal center in Israel. Established in November 1996, Adalah serves the Palestinian community nationwide, over one million people or 20% of the population.

https://www.adalah.org/en/law/index

Sussurations · 15/12/2023 17:35

By any normal definition of the word, Israel is a democracy. So I’m interested to know what you think means it’s not. One opinion piece in the Guardian hasn’t changed my understanding of democracy as a system of government. I’m well aware of the problems within Israel, the failings of Netanyahu’s government and indeed the PR electoral system which gives more extreme parties more opportunities to form governments.

Thereissomelight · 15/12/2023 16:39

@daytriptovulcan
Agree

Thereissomelight · 15/12/2023 16:30

The term “democracy” has been defined by a dictionary excerpt, above. I don’t disagree with it. Your query about Israel’s poor democratic principles have been answered above by a pp, backed up with a relevant Guardian article. I agree with the article and am not sure what else you require. I think you’re arguing just for the sake of it. If not, I apologise, but I have nothing further to add that has not been said here already.

Thereissomelight · 15/12/2023 16:25

Sussurations · 15/12/2023 16:01

Err no, I’m asking why Israel is killing thousands of innocent people if their target is Hamas and the Gazan people had no choice in Hamas taking power.

Your stance is that Israel is not a democracy. You haven’t said what you think the definition of democracy is.

Hamas were elected in 2006, but since then there have been no elections in Gaza.

I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make about democracy specifically.

I don’t understand your point either so I think there’s no point in us continuing this engagement thanks.

daytriptovulcan · 15/12/2023 16:02

"Israel is at war with Gaza"
Your first line is kinda a lie, isn't it?
Gaza is essentially occupied territory, where there is an ebb and flow of pushback against the occupying military. Being occupied, coerced and blockages Gaza is not a state, it's just a destroyed fragment. A more truthful statement is: Israel continues to ethnically cleanse Gaza and West Bank, as it has done before Hamas attack.