Conflict Israel and other nearby countries

So because you think other countries see Palestinians as a nuisance, that makes it ok for Israel to massacre them? If that’s not what you’re saying, you may need to make that more clear because it sounds that way to me.

In 20 years time when all of this ill feeling and trauma hasn’t gone away (because the trauma now is so huge that it won’t) Israel will no doubt try to pin it all on the Palestinians, claiming that Israel did nothing wrong. It’s why I think it’s so important now to make sure there are so many records of this massacre - despite EVERY attempt by Israel to ban and murder journalists in Gaza - that a future generation will not be fooled for a moment.

I don't think they are a nuisance. I said the leaders of other countries think this judging by their actions towards them. Whether you believe this yourself is something else but it is clearly the case because the middle eastern leaders have treatment them as such for many many years

@Trulywonderful once again at a time when they are being killed and bombed indiscriminately in their thousands, to call the Palestinians a 'nuisance' or to say that the surrounding arab countries consider them a nuisance is dehumanising and offensive.
No matter what your own analysis of the surrounding countries domestic policy regarding the Palestinians is.

They won't allow them to flee to their countries incase Hamas or other terrorist group members are amongst them

They largely won't give them citizenship even if they for generations. Mostly to help the Palestinian cause but also to lessen the any financial responsibility for them

So yes leaders of surrounding countries do see Palestinian a added nuisance they could do without

If they were bothered about Palestinians them this whole conflict would have been over years ago. They could have declared a Palestinian state when Jordan or Egypt was in charge of the west bank and Gaza. They could step in now and make it impossible for the conflict to continue because Israel and Hamas would hold a ceasefire if a united Arab force policed it. However they simply see the whole conflict and the Palestinians as a nuisance. Sure there is probably a more political word I could use but nuisance seems to some up the feeling the Arab leaders give out

Oh and don't forget that neither Hezbollah or the Houthis are state actors, Hamas is small fry compared to either of them.

Sorry I don't seem to have made myself clear.

You are perhaps correct that the leaders of other gulf states do not really care about Palestinians but their populations do and they will respond if the pressure from their own citizens continues to mount. Israel may have succeeded against it's neighbours in the past but things have changed, a fact the US and most of the leaders of the western world seem to have missed, and those countries are now much stronger militarily and I don't think Israel would prevail in a war on multiple fronts.

People in Europe and increasingly the US do not want to get involved in yet another forever war and any government thinking they could do it without the consent if their citizens will pay at the ballot box. The west has already paid the Ukraine tax for an American proxy war with Russia, which has left Ukraine in ruins and a generation of young men dead, I don't think we have the appetite to set the middle east on fire too, particularly with a developing Russia/Chinese alliance to think about.

Without the support and military aid of the US, Israel will struggle to defend itself.

@Trulywonderful

'The other Arab countries see Palestinians as a nuisance'
I disagree. Hamas as a nuisance? Yes
The Palestinians as a whole? Not at all as a nuisance and would be offensive to say unless you have data to suggest so.

You seem to be having a totally different conversation from what I posted about. Which is interesting but a little odd. Israel has never really had strong friendships in the middle east. I mean 5 countries attacked it the moment it was declared a state. Then contiuned to cause issues or wats over the years. So in relative times even now it is doing much better than before. Plus the last Arab leaders meeting was supposed to be too raise support for taking action or sanctions against Israel. Iran however was badly disappointed because the leaders were not up for that. In fact some basically said whilst they condemn the gazen civilians deaths they will resume business as usual with Israel once this is over. You see the thing people don't seem to get is the Arab leaders don't actually care about Gazens. They just make sound bites to keep their Muslim population happy. In fact most those countries have killed more Palestinians than Israel ever have. Syria tortured, raped and killed 7400 women and children in a refugge camp in matter of weeks for a start and that is without counting the number killed over the years. The other Arab countries see Palestinians as a nuisance and want rid of Hamas at any cost. Hamas is a problem for most their own countries too.

Odd question

It didn't come out of a vacuum but that doesn't make it lesser than what it was. No justifying torture, rape and murder or hostage taking. Especially when it has apparently been planned for years.

Similarly no justifying violence, deaths or hate from either Jewish/Arab Israelis or Gazens and Arabs in the west bank. Not from me anyway. I totally understand how both groups got to this level of hate and violence but that doesn't mean I agree with it.

Of course it's selective, what Arafat said in the 1960's Vs what he said in the 1990's.

Its quite bold to accuse the Palestinians of ethnic cleansing given how many of them have been forcibly displaced by the Israeli armed forces and in light of the US, on behalf of Netanyahu, trying to persuade Egypt to accept the population of Gaza into the Sinai. Perhaps we shouldn't talk about the incremental land grab and displacement of Palestinians in the West Bank.

I stopped believing this conflict is complicated and educated myself about the history. I believe Yitzhak Rabin was the only honest peace broker Israel ever had. Who assassinated him in protest over the Oslo accords, it wasn't the Palestinians.

You still do not seem to understand just what a precarious position Israel is in. It has nothing to do with antisemitism and everything to do with how international politics works. Supporting Israel is becoming a liability for western politicians with their domestic audiences and damaging their credibility on the world stage. Israel needs to stop the death and destruction in Gaza before it has no friends left.

I agree with you that the extremists on both sides don’t want peace. I just resent having to watch Israel’s extremism be supported by the West.

And does not justify 20000 deaths (that we know of so far) as a response, plus mass maimings and starvation and over a million people made homeless?

@Trulywonderful
So if you think that what’s been happening over the past few years is due to cause and affect (I agree with you there btw) do you agree that Oct 7 did not come out of a vacuum?

Not selective at all but the actual history of the conflict regarding the ethnic cleansing of Jewish people in the middle east and Arafat's involvement. Which is the bit most people seem to miss out on purpose or are ignorant about. What has happened in more recent years is cause and affect in the most horrific and tragic way possible. No good or peace will come from people ignoring basic facts and the words of the Arab leaders both past and present. However it seems a lot of people don't actually want peace and they are very vocal in their rewrite of history and their ignorance of facts. So the conflict will continue even after a ceasefire is finally agreed.

Well that's quite a selective history.

We understand all too well Hamas' intentions, they have been very clear.

Sadly I think it is you that doesn't understand why the Israeli governments handling of what happened on 7th October is making Israel less safe. It is has very little international support at the moment and even Joe Biden is walking back his "no redlines" position, it's costing him in the polls and many in the US are arguing that protecting Israel is not in the US national interest.

You cannot use a terrorist attack to justify a man made famine/draught/humanitarian catastrophe affecting over two million people and expect to retain international support and moral authority. And you cannot accuse everyone who expresses grave concerns about your actions an antisemite.

Israel should have been smarter and the US should have used it's considerable leverage to encourage a more effective strategy, it's lost the war both in terms of failing in its objectives and damage to its reputation.

The Palestinians and the Israelis deserve better than the Netanyahu government has to offer.

@Trulywonderful as has happened in the surrounding Arab countries.

The countries added do not accept Israeli passports and some do not accept passports with Israeli stamps in them.

On Thursday, in statements to the Cadena SER radio station, Spanish vice president Yolanda Díaz said it was “enormously hypocritical” that the international community was rushing to protect commercial interests in the Red Sea, but remained passive when it came to defending the civilian population in Gaza.

What a sensible woman.

People ignore all that and assume that all those there now ha e family going back hundreds of years. It works the hamas cause.

Sadly people don't understand or at least pretend to not know what the Arab cause that Arafat and other Arab leaders such as Hamas have openly spoken about means.

Arafat and others before him in the middle east was always clear about it being a long term plan. He said it would tale generations before its goals were met. He meant the slow drip feeding of hate and division would take that long. Then eventually just like we saw in Europe the general public would except and some even participate in the dehumanising and ethnic cleaning of Jews.

When people say what they are believe them. Some Arab leaders have been very honest all along about their goal and the long term plan. Arafat made a flag and got the Arabs on the land to call themselves Palestinians in the 60s. Until that point they didn't refer to themselves as such because the majority were from the 500k of Arabs that arrived on the land between in the 30 years before 1948. Even the indigenious Arabs on the land didn't tend to call themselves Palestinian. Arafat told people it would further the Arab cause, so the Arabs that were not Israel citizens or didn't want to be went along with it. It has always been about ethic cleansing of the land and then later after 1948 dismantling Israel.

@Thereissomelight sadly yes that is the case on here too often.

@mondriansdog
I tend to focus on the multiple child deaths because if you comment on how many adults are dead the excuse will be that they are all part of Hamas.

@Thereissomelight I think I read 8,000 the other day :( Not to mention all the women, men etc.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Or in this case, 7000 wrongs (number of Gazan children murdered since October) don’t make a right.

@Gettingcolder it is truly terrible and sad that Jewish people were ethnically cleansed from other countries.

This is why we should stand up when it is happening to Palestinians, and say loudly that it should never happen to anyone, Jewish or Palestinian.