Conflict Israel and other nearby countries

@Polka83 well the post above you has just confirmed what they have declined now.
A ceasefire.
Not sure what they would find unreasonable?

Israel-Hamas latest: Iran tells Israel it 'will pay for killing general'; Mo Salah comments on 'brutal war' in Xmas message | World News | Sky News

Just out on Sky News:

"Hamas and the allied Islamic Jihad have rejected an Egyptian proposal that they relinquish power in the Gaza Strip in return for a permanent ceasefire, two Egyptian security sources have told Reuters.

Egypt proposed a "vision", also backed by Qatari mediators, that would involve a ceasefire in exchange for the release of more hostages, and lead to a broader agreement involving a permanent ceasefire along with an overhaul of leadership in Gaza, which is currently led by Hamas.

Egypt proposed elections while offering assurances to Hamas that its members would not be chased or prosecuted, but they rejected any concessions other than hostage releases"

Hamas could stop this all now by just agreeing to new elections (which they have prevented since 2006) and releasing the hostages.

So yes that is why people (including Egypt and Qatar) are blaming Hamas and PIJ.

Does Israel really want to give Hamas what they want and what might go some way to resolve historic grievances?

Here’s the olive branch Hamas offered in 2017 with their updated charter. It’s about land and the Likud party has a more extreme stance with regard to land and a 2 state solution compared to what Hamas suggested:

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders

Yes Hamas. People are blaming them because they brutally killed raped and kidnapped hundreds of people.

@TwilightSkies why is that?
Who is firing rockets into Israel?
Who went into kibbutz and murdered peace activists, children and the elderly? (Actually that's a trick question as it wasn't just hamas)
Who is Refusing to surrender and hand over power to a government set up Arab countries helping?
I will give you a clue if you like....

People still blaming Hamas for all this! Crazy.
It’s Israel dropping bombs on refugee camps, on hospitals, on schools. They’ve done nothing but harm and oppress Palestinians from DECADES. Steal their land and now slaughter them all. But yeah….Hamas?!

@stomachamaleon maybe all the demonstrators shouting "Ceasefire NOW" could aim it towards Hamas at their next demo then? Doubtful though.

It just pours scorn on what exactly they committed the massacre and took hostages for. What do they want exactly?

Israel have made it clear they need to go. Most Arab counties will work to install and support a government and the civilians will get a ceasefire.

I know they don't want to give up their corrupt money source but then what is it all about? Not the people of Gaza and peace that's for sure.

I'm not surprised. Terrorist groups don't want to give up power. They'd rather their people died then they give up power. Sad.

www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-islamic-jihad-reject-egypts-proposal-to-give-up-power-in-gaza-in-return-for-ceasefire-report/

Thanks for clarifying- not before I’ve spent a fascinating evening going down a rabbit hole while dc watched very boring a Chinese movie.
And yes , it was a stupid question - sorry about that.
The extent of migration from other countries seems controversial among demographers but apart from the discredited Joan Peters, they seem to agree that most of the increase in Arab population was natural increase due to socioeconomic factors.

Yes

what proportion was due to absentee landlords selling to Zionists

Sorry but literally no idea what the question is here or what the relevance if I try to guess what your question is

As for the rest:

Population of pre-Mandate Palestine was 800k about 80k of whom were Jewish, the rest a mix of Turks, Bedouins, Muslim & Christian Arabs, & European ex-pats.

Over 500k of that initial 800k were Arabs who arrived between 1932 & 1944 attracted by the Yishuv's burgeoning finances.

The Arabs that arrived from surrounding countries came because the land was getting developed and both work or business opportunities were happening. So economic migration.

Which is was documented and reported about at the time.

Can you be more specific about the 500k Arabs that “arrived”? What proportion was voluntary migration, what proportion was due to absentee landlords selling to Zionists and what number was due to involuntary migration?

@Trulywonderful I have my fair share of complaints for many of the Arab leaders and I don't hide it
Assad should be in the Hague for all of his war crimes, and certainly not in a position to vote on the well being of the Palestinians. A bigger hypocrite I am yet to see

@Trulywonderful well we will have to agree to disagree on this one then
As I said I don't believe it was you're intention but I don't agree with the word nuisance and I do find it dehumanising to use to generalise on the whole that Arab leaders think that of the Palestinians.
It wasn't to say that you as an individual person was using it for that reason

I get why you believe that but don't agree with you. However I think the word is the most accurate for how the middle eastern leaders react and treat Palestinians. What you should be complaining about is that they think like this about a group of people that need their help and often have little control of the circumstances. However you have chosen to attack the use of the word rather than the behaviour and attitude it describes

Also @EasterIssland
thank you for the thread
It is scary to see how actions of the IDF is increasing tensions locally - although accept prior tensions. For a start, it has put back normalisation of relationship with Saudi Arabia and Israel. The SA population dont want this by an overwhelming majority, and will be interesting to see how this pans out.
Also- the bombardment of Gaza is having repercussions on USA politics - given unpopularity of way Biden has managed Netanyahu amongst Democratic voters.

The USA does look weaker - and interesting that some E.U. countries did not want to join US led force in the Red Sea. I think other countries are manoeuvring into the hegemony gap being created- eg Putin visiting SA and China still buying Iranian oil.

The war has also damaged standing of Israeli government amongst world- who bar US has voted for a ceasefire in the UN.

What question and did it have anything to do with my post?

I think we both know you are clutching at straws now.

Seriously go try this tactic with someone else. Trying to twist my words or make them sound like something more than they are on mumsnet isn't going to fly well for you. People know me and my ethics plus my heart. You make yourself look bad and I don't think you are that bad just a little bias at times

@Trulywonderful
You didn’t answer my question.

Just to clarify I'm not saying that was your intention but to explain why I think it's incorrect to use that word

Well that was a big jump away from what I was talking about wasn't it

How about I return that with something equally as not what you said or a ridiculous leap.

How about:

So you think it is OK to record events to be used to promote genocide of Jewish people in the future. To justify the genocide of 9 million Jewish and Arab citizens in Israel. Is that what you want? Is it? Is it?

How did I do was that a decent leap? I am not used to doing that so may have to practice a bit but seems okish for a first try 😂

@Trulywonderful despite what you think of what other Arab countries think of ordinary Palestinians, I still think that using the word 'Nuisance' is dehumanising and maybe you could have worded it better.

It's a unfortunate narrative used against groups of people that have had genocide committed against them in the past, as history tells us.