Netanyahu and Hamas

Who is considered a “child”?
Based on the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, a child means every human being below the age of 18.
https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

Some posters on here are very keen on misinformation

Commentators are but generally the line is that death tolls given in previous conflicts correspond with investigations after the conflict.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/despite-bidens-doubts-humanitarian-agencies-consider-gaza-toll-reliable-2023-10-27/

That is an excellent piece by the BBC but they are pointing to social media - which isn’t a good source of news. I’d question any video I’d see on social media - they could be videos from previous conflicts, other conflicts around the world. Obviously sometimes legitimate new sources do get it wrong but they are generally the best source of news.

@SirBobblysock it's not very specific. I saw on itv news (I think it was) that one in three are combatants.

@cauliflowerwaterfall but there is no evidence of excess male adult deaths ( or excess male deaths generally) above what would be accounted for by the IDF estimates of Hamas deaths. An no reputable agencies are actually querying the Palestinian estimated (although we should always be cautious).

@cauliflowerwaterfall that's a good point.

I think it depends. In terms of the overall death toll it’s probably not far off. There is not the same kind of scientific, forensic process that is going on in Israel but as an estimate it’s probably reasonably accurate.

Where you need to treat with a pinch of salt is the death tolls ascribed to specific events, the distinction between civilians vs combatants (combatants out of uniform are counted as civilians) and children (anyone under 19) vs adults which are often very misleading. By design I would add - the classification is not done by accident.

For example, if an 18.5 year old terrorist changes into civilian clothing, attacks an IDF soldier, and is killed, they count in the official death toll as 1 civilian child, which is misleading in terms of that’s not what you’d imagine is meant by civilian or child.

If Israel targets a weapons cache in a residential building containing say 10 terrorists, some under 19, and wearing ordinary clothes, it will be recorded as 10 civilians killed in a home, including children. They are deliberately trying to mislead you and pass young adult combatants off as small civilian children so you do have to be careful. But the overall death toll is probably accurate.

Various news outlets have explained why the figures are, generally speaking, regarded as reliable and that they have generally corresponded with independent figures compiled after the fact.

That said, I do not think it is necessary to even trust in them - if you simply look at the insane level of destruction in Gaza you would have to engage in quite some mental contortions to convince yourself that it could be anything other than a total massacre. Humans, as a general rule, tend not to fare too well when buildings collapse on top of them - and when thousands of buildings are being bombed into oblivion in an extremely densely populated area, utter carnage is essentially inevitable.

Tens of thousands of Palestinians dead,mainly children? Reported by Hamas, who have falsified evidence in the past, so may not be accurate
**
Israeli women raped and murdered? Reported by eyewitnesses, have falsified evidence in the past, so may not be accurate

i haven’t seen any legitimate news-sources saying either of those things is inaccurate. Hamas committed a horrendous attack on ordinary Israeli civilians and Israeli has responded with a brutal campaign killing thousands of ordinary Palestinian’s.

As far a I know it uses Proportional Representation and no one automatically gets seats although (like here) certain parties are more popular in certain areas with certain people.

There is no formal separation of state and religion in Israel. It recognises a blend of religious and civil law (although I know it's been a bit contentious recently)

Divid and rule is fairly basic tactic used by conquerors over the conquered. The British had tremendously success with it over the immensely more populous Indian Subcontinent/The Raj.
The Isreali far right and Taliban types in the cabinet desperately needed Hamas, so they'd never have to sit down to "serious" negotiations about a 2-state solution.

It’s a case of two things can be true: Netanyahu has been a complete disaster who spent much of his career lining his own pockets and clinging on, he took his eye off the ball and Israel’s defences were breached, he is utterly corrupt. But a corrupt politician doesn’t justify the barbaric actions of Hamas. Bibi could dance naked through the streets of Gaza City singing Hatikvah and it wouldn’t justify what Hamas did. If Israel has 1 corrupt politician, Hamas has 100.

Of course Hamas and Netanyahoo should go but more fundamental is the Israeli constitution which allocates a proportion of Knesset seats to ultra-orthodox parties and effectively makes progressive centrist or left of centre governments less likely. Also Israeli voters tend to choose the Right because they think the Left will be soft on the Palestinians but that choice tends to shut out the possibility of compromise. And the immigration from the former Soviet states has bolstered the intransigence of the Right because of the perceived need for more cheap land. It's also quite clear that Hamas and the PLA are corrupt.

@Depdawg thank you. I agree it is not black and white.

Having been smeared many times on these boards, I was trying to point out how often it is attempted.

Not at all. I'm saying the situation is not black and white and I feel things and thoughts can be misinterpreted.
Nobody on thise site wants anything but peace.
I too apologise if I caused offence. It was not intentional.

@Depdawg I may have misread your post as implying that I am a Hamas supporter. If that was not your intention I apologise.

If you weren't accusing me of being a Hamas supporter, I still do not understand what you mean by the post you made though. Your post is unclear.

As I said elsewhere, it's impossible trying to engage, like an adult, with some. Waste of my time.

@Depdawg please, enough of the ridiculous defamation and smears. I categorically do not support Hamas. reporting your post for defamation and a personal attack.

How many times do people say that criticising Israel is seen as antisemitic? It's not like that at all.

It seems like you've purposely ignored the general discourse on these threads. The accusation pops up ALL the time on threads that are highlighting what Israel is doing. Even ones that condemn Hamas. Weird to say it doesn't happen.