Why Can't Gazans Leave?

I don't know why people say the UK would do the same if attacked. We don't have a couple of million people held under blockade in a strip of land here, Surely the situation is quite unusual there.

@Christmascountdownpanic yes but some will also dismissive or downplay what Is happening too. So it's only this percentage of people killed implying its not actually that bad.

From what I have seen @Efacsen is one of the most accurate with up to date figures and what is happening
But we are talking about death and destruction at a large scale that is happening non stop aswell as rockets being fired into Israel daily aswell as many displaced within Israel too. It's difficult to talk about this without emotions coming into it and this is a forum so it's expected to see people's feelings, emotions and perceptions on issues like this on both sides.

I don't know a single person from my family and friends who haven't been impacted by what is happening right now in some way.

Correct but many then go on with over the top exclamations of the population is being literally wiped out (2.5 million are not wiped out) genocide, ethnic cleansing, there are no buildings, it's a wasteland etc. SOME, obviously not you are unable to distinguish the difference and assume everything is like that shown.

Sitting down and mediation using logical process and people is what is needed to move forward for everyone.

@Christmascountdownpanic it's a war. Ofcourse the general focus is going to be on deaths casualties and damage. That's not only from journalists living there but on MSM too.

They deserve better than the restrictions imposed on them by Israel too.

I shared the article as an interesting description of how contentious and difficult it is estimating damage- not particularly for the figures which as you say are out of date

Photo-journalists the world over chose the most dramatic and sensational images available - why would they need any outside help deciding what to publish from Hamas

All seems a bit minimising and IDK ?conspiratorial on your part

I agree that many wouldn't want to live there. The people of Gaza deserve better than the hamas mob they have that run everything there . They have done nothing but damage Gaza in their twisted aims.

@Efacsen

The reason I took the 5th bit not the proceeding bit is because it summarised total damage. It's your link, not mine, you shared it and I commented on it so don't blame me if your figures in the story you shared are out of date. 🙄

Some suggest local journalists share what Hamas allows refers to the pictures of damaged buildings and people dying or injured. Hamas love that being shared whilst they hide away. Not the aerial pictures in this mainstream news that wasn't what I meant. Hamas control and show what they want as in buildings. They won't show the 80% or if you will 70 % or 60% undamaged naturally. They have an agenda which many dance along to and don't question.

https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/

All deaths in conflict are wrong but to get it in perspective the number of Israeli deaths are incredible low compared to Palestinian

You have taken 5 lines without the context of the preceding 4 lines which say

''The imagery moving north to south showed 47% to 59% damage between 7 October and 22 November in northern Gaza, 47-58% damage in Gaza City, 11-16% in Deir al-Balah, 10-15% in Khan Younis and 7-11% in Rafah, the area closest to the border with Egypt''

We are now almost another 4 weeks on from 22 Nov during which time there has been intensive bombing in Gaza City, Deir al-Balah and Khan Younis so those last figures will no longer be accurate .

It seems possible that the 60% figure which is commonly quoted comes from the damage to northern gaza on 22 Nov of 47-59% [now more]

And as you say yourself only destroyed/very damaged buildings are being counted

So I still maintain that 18% is an outlier

I'm not sure why you say '' Some suggested that Hamas control what the local journalists are allowed to show'' - these results were from international private companies using satellite images which Hamas could not influence

But really the main point here is that even tho' 'everything' hasn't literally been destroyed a great deal has and it may well feel like everything to people living there

I've never seen a "war" like this before. No one has.

Hamas has caused all this. If you kill 1200 Israelis what do you expect? It is the Israeli 9/11.What else did anyone think would happen? If it happened in the UK we would react along similar lines - it is why we hold nuclear weapons etc. This is war.

As for Hamas using hospitals as cover it is very likely https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/gaza-hospital-chief-admits-to-being-hamas-commander-using-clinic-as-military-base/ar-AA1lKqfz

When you cover a war and you have bias you don't show areas that are not damaged, you don't show the millions who are not dead or injured. You show the death, destruction and damage. 25000 people dead is absolutely dreadful and a proper ceasefire with hostages released is needed but a population is not being wiped out as some would claim. We never see dead terrorists because a)they dont die or b) it is purposely not shown.

War is horrific and with social media we now see that horror in colour online constantly.

@Christmascountdownpanic that's interesting and certainly not the way it's being portrayed in the media

@Efacsen

Pasted from the story you linked:

"This amounts to between 67,000 and 88,000 buildings, meaning roughly 70% of buildings remain undamaged. The figure for Khan Younis will have risen since the end of the ceasefire and the concentration of Israeli military activity in the south.' Naturally only the ver damaged areas are being shown. Some suggested that Hamas control what the local journalists are allowed to show.

I see The Guardian story suggests that around 70% of buildings are undamaged
(Towards the end if the story adding up aerial footage from all parts they summarised).

@stormy4319trevor more on the 'humanitarian compound'?

Israel’s foreign minister says Israel wants to fast-track the delivery of humanitarian aid to Gaza through a maritime corridor from Cyprus, bolstering stability in the region.

Foreign Minister Eli Cohen told reporters Wednesday after a visit to a center of operations in the coastal town of Larnaca that the well-supervised aid to Gaza would help the region to gain more stability, AP reports.

Always giving shade to UNWRA - I mean intense bombardment of Rafah/Southern Gaza doesn't impair their ability to deliver aid does it? And definitely leads to 'more stability' Depriving UNWRA of fuel really helps them deliver

/

An Israeli air attack has taken place, this time close to the Egyptian border, southwest from Rafah city

It would only take a small mis-calculation to hit that wall?

.

@stomachameleon i have looked and the only thing I can see is a NBC report which thinks that she might have been and there is no evidence for it either. I haven't seen anything official from IDF statements or anyone else so that is just speculation at this point?
Either way it's terrible and I hope that in the next round of hostages released hopefully that she is released and if not then for Hamas to atleast have the minimum decency to confirm if she is alive or not. (Although I don't have much hope of any decency in them)

I haven't actually seen about the Kamal Adwan director. It hasn't been reported in any MSM like sky or BBC so I will look into that.
And whatever Israel attacks is just said Hamas was there and that's the end of it. Does it excuse or justify the thousands killed and the thousands more injured and the thousands more stuck under the rubble? In my opinion no it does not.
The Gazans have no one. A government who doesn't seem to care about them and an army who is indiscriminately killing and maiming them in their thousands. They have every reason not to trust the IDF

Yeah the older man who was shot in the leg requiring amputation when being tortured

And then released so presumably didn't have any useful information after all

Thankfully that is going to be investigated

Did you see on the other thread where I mentioned Noa Argamani was not taken by Hamas but taken by normal 'civilians'

Not everyone is innocent. People have to be checked.

Whatever is posted will be excused as Israeli propaganda but what about the head of the hospital... no one appears to have mentioned that. Don't use infrastructure for nefarious purposes then?

nypost.com/2023/12/19/news/gaza-hospital-chief-admits-to-being-hamas-commander/

Oh and let's not forget any males over 16 who get stopped and often detained and taken away when trying to move somewhere safe

Some mysteriously disappear and others come back with signs of torture and abuse

@stomachameleon like Hamas that was in the church and all the hospitals and all the mosques and all the bakeries and all the schools and all the water sanitation plants and all essential infrastructure

I don't trust the IDF for one second. The Palestinians are nothing more than an inconvenience for Netanyahu and I don't think he will lose his sleep if any more safe zones happen to get bombed
I don't see any reasons why the Gazans would trust them either after the last 76 days

@Parkingt111 hopefully Hamas would think enough of their own people to not go there or attempt to fire rockets from inside it.

You never know?

@Parkingt111 @Efacsen Thanks for your thoughts. It didn't sound like a firm plan, so we'll see!