Why Can't Gazans Leave?

@stomachameleon I do understand what you mean and I wish more than anything that they would release the hostages.
I don't know what exactly they turned down but for me personally the cost of life is too much
On average 300 people a day are being killed. That's more than any other conflict in recent times
If you look at the way Ismail Haniyyeh and others are acting, they are not even close to being defeated yet every day the civilians are paying the price
So how many more Gazans have to die before they are defeated? Already 20 thousand are dead in less than three months.
They have said If there is a full ceasefire they will release all the hostages

@Parkingt111 but it's quite simple then. Release the hostages and start somewhere.

Do you honestly think Hamas wanting a full ceasefire has anything to do with the Gazan's? They will see it as a victory.

@stomachameleon they don't want a pause. That's just taking a break from the killing. But a full ceasefire

Horrific and surely a war crime?

apple.news/AjP_9ejkzRUq0xmWzy-Aeuw

What did Blinken say? The path this stopping has been put on the table and rejected by Hamas.

Absolutely heinous. Hopefully these people will be convicted of war crimes. Not that that's any good to the people being terrorised and murdered as we speak. God help them.

They told the residents to go to Deir al Balah.
And then once people did then bombed it the next day

From sky
Another example of why the Gazans don't trust the IDF.

Israel said it would be used to give clear and precise evacuation orders to try to keep civilians in the densely populated Gaza Strip away from active combat zones.
Using on-the-ground footage, satellite imagery and mapping software, a Sky News visual investigation found that Israel's evacuation orders have instead been chaotic and contradictory and that a neighbourhood in Deir al Balah was hit one day after the IDF said evacuees could flee to the city.

That's what I was thinking, @MissyB1

More forced evacuations southwards in Khan Younis

And continuing bombardment of Rafah

1649 and the expression is still used today.

I read that article and it’s really scary and depressing. Those poor people are literally treated like animals, they must be constantly terrified.

Just shocking

Israel Gaza: 'I walked my kids past explosions and rotting corpses' www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67635735

Some parallels can also be drawn with what happened in Ireland during the time of Cromwell and the Plantations:
"After Charles I was executed on Jan. 29, 1649, Cromwell was dispatched to Ireland to bring the Royalist Army into submission. That adventure soon became a war to bring about the “ultimate solution” of the Irish Catholic problem. The land owned by the Irish was confiscated in all but the poor area west of the Shannon and the order “To hell or to Connaught” gave full warning that any who remained would be put to the sword. In the Church in Drogheda, wherein Irish fled for safety, men, women and children were slaughtered. None escaped".
The newly displaced Irish peasantry were banished to western and southern Ireland. While ordering the mass eviction of Irish Catholics from their land, Cromwell famously announced that he would send the Irish “to Hell or Connaught!” (Connaught is a province in Western Ireland, with very poor agricultural land and at that time very difficult to make living off)
To hell or to Connaught is still a well used phrase in Ireland today

@stormy4319trevor think I've maybe confused myself - I'll have another think about it all

@Efacsen why is it necessarily'sinister'?
If compromise can't be reached I assume Israel intends to seal off Gaza and extend the border? Tighten up security.
Either with Israel or international guards?
Can't allow another 7/10 if hamas refuse to go.
Why would they keep facilitating things through the border? Putting safety at risk?

I'm a bit confused @Efacsen What's the connection between the proposed compound and the sea corridor between Cyprus and Gaza?

@stormy4319trevor so maybe I wasn't being paranoid thinking that there was something sinister afoot with the 'humanitarian compound' and the EU maritime aid corridor

Cyprus aid corridor will allow Israel to cut off Gaza: Israeli FM

Eli Cohen, in an interview with Israeli media, said he has reached an agreement with Cypriot and UK authorities to open the corridor after a brief trip to Cyprus today.
Israel will “establish a sea corridor between Cyprus and Gaza, provided that it would be under Israeli security supervision and control”, he said.

He also said this would be done in a way that would allow Israel to “completely close the crossings between Israel and Gaza, and in order to ensure complete separation from Gaza”, implying that Israel intends to close the recently opened Karem Abu Salem (Kerem Shalom) border crossing with Gaza.

Every historic and current situation like this has unique factors to it. Comparison is when you highlight the things that are similar while understanding no two situations can be identical. Some things like do people have a right to live on their land are simple. There is no recognition of being of a certain religion means you can just take by force and murder land that you claim your ancestors might have lived on thousands of years ago.

We live in a global village now, the international values are that people have a right to immigrate and go to historic homelands or to new countries and adopt a new homeland. We all know that humans have had waves upon waves of migration over the millenia. There is no take backsies.

This means that returning to a historic homeland doesn’t mean you can displace the peoples who are already legally there, and have been for generations, simply because they are a different religion from you. It would be like a descendent of the Norman invasion rocking up into Normandy and taking over a chateau in France, kicking out the French people living there who had never left.

Because the Palestinians, most of them are also not new to the region as an ethnicity, their religions are slightly newer than Judiaism because they adopted Christianity and Islam.

@MercanDede I don't know, I just think the situation is so unusual and complicated that it can't be compared with the UK.

I don’t think it makes it any more complicated.

@MercanDede Very tragic history to the US and Canada. I was told that the stories about the violent tribes scalping was actually something started by the settlers - not sure if that's true. It's more complicated in Israel I think, because Jewish people have always lived there, unlike European settlers to the US and Canada. If for some reason England decided to put Dorset or Cornwall under blockade and they attacked us, I suppose there would be a way to draw a comparison.

The US forced displacement and slow motion genocide of the Native Americans is roughly comparable. The US forced Native Americans off their lands into designated “reservations” which were the worst bits of land, often far from their tribal homelands. The US then diverted water resources, blockaded the reservations controlling food, goods, medicine. Even infected blankets and cloth with smallpox to cause epidemics to rage through the trapped populace. The US military restricted movement, any leaving the res were considered hostile “on the warpath”. Punitive measures consisted of massacres of Native American villages by the U.S. military on raids. Native Americans were not US citizens and had no vote

S. Africa Apartheid has some parallels as well and is more modern.

@Parkingt111 True, we are no angels. Maybe we should be asking ourselves what Iceland would do, or some other country that seems peaceful. Still, the situation of having millions of people fenced in on your own land mass is unusual, and I can't see how war strategies can be compared to the UK or many other places really.

I don't think given our history with war that the UK is a great example to compare other countries with in that aspect either.