Why Can't Gazans Leave?

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/23/israel-flooding-hamas-tunnels-seawater-risks-ruining-basic-life-gaza-expert

if Israel do flood the tunnels and ruin basic life, this could be deemed to be genocide

@paladium i think the majority are sympathetic and have empathy.
But some who do minimise sadly

@Parkingt111 yes I definitely think that deserves a thread of its own. Don't be put off posting it, as I think it is important. You will always get pushback, every thread supporting Palestine has pushback on it, but it's important. :)

Israel's military campaign is viewed as one of the most destructive in the history of warfare, according to experts.
Israel's offensive has destroyed over two-thirds of all structures in northern Gaza and a quarter of buildings in the southern area of Khan

Yet when we share videos to show the damage and destruction we are apparently doing Hamas PR and why don't we show all the 'good bits' in Gaza right now

https://news.sky.com/story/un-security-council-vote-on-gaza-aid-delayed-again-over-talks-with-us-on-ceasefire-13034723

As terrible as it is I wasn't shocked when I read this.
This probably deserves a thread of its own for those who keep saying it's not as bad as posters on here are making out and there's been worse that we are not paying attention to right now

According to experts war in Gaza is one of the most destructive in history
"Gaza is now a different colour from space. It's a different texture," Mr Scher said, who has worked to map destruction across several warzones.
The offensive has wreaked more destruction than the razing of Aleppo between 2012 and 2016, Ukraine's Mariupol last year at the hands of Russia or, proportionally, the Allied bombing of Germany in the Second World War.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-latest-hamas-war-updates-sky-news-blog-12978800?postid=6959887#liveblog-body

@MissyB1 exactly this. I've even seen suggestions that Gaza should be nuked on here. Madness.

@Xenia so you’re another person who thinks terrorists can be bombed out of existence? Seriously? Spoiler alert - it doesn’t work!

@Xenia - if the border is closed completely - how will aid get in? Why should the Palestinians be kept in an open air prison without the basic right to move freely?
Some in the US and UK may support the actions of the Israeli government but the numbers are dropping as a reflection of the inhumane acts of the IDF. Netanyahu is holding onto power with his finger tips as the Israeli population want him out of office as do the US government.

Israel needs to defeat Hamas and ensure the Hamas slaughter does not happen again. That might require a complete closure of a very large border area used as a big gap between Israel and Gaza perhaps with no crossings of any kind and certainly no tunnels going under.

In my view the destruction of Hamas is above the lives of the hostages although the more who can be released the better. Giving in to terrorists who kidnap people for hoped reward has never been a strategy the UK, USA or Israel supports. If you give in you just show you are weak and many more kidnappings happen.

Pakistan is sending 1.7m Afghans back to Afghanistan - 400k have already gone back - in part because of Taliban support amongst some of them and increase Islamic terrorist attacks in Pakistan by Afghans who have a Pakistan Taliban. It is not just the West which faces intense threats from Islamic terrorists - it is also places like Pakistan. Iran is also currently expelling Afghans. There is a common them with the Taliban, ISIS and Hamas - they have similar appalling practices and views.

Drone strike by IDF killed 4 Palestinians at the Kerem Shalom gate yesterday - one of them was the Hamas official in charge of the Rafah crossing

If you say so Storm better hope your assertions are correct.

Hopefully they're not coming from the same Western commentators who said Ukraine was winning for 18 months, happily writing article after article about Russia running out of weapons and men and how they will support Ukraine until the end. To today admitting that Ukraine is losing (after being destroyed with male casualties that will lead to a demographic collapse) and that there's no money or weapons left.

From listening to actual civilians in the region who are openly communicating all over social media. There is anger, hurt and betrayal being felt and expressed.

Remember a lot of the leaders in that region are puppets installed after the 2011 Western assisted "Arab Spring". aka Sisi in Egypt, yet even he is being careful not to be seen as being close to America (he openly told Blinken off).

All I was trying to express is that the Status quo is over. However this ends there will not be a return to any type of cordial relationship with Israel, for generations to come. The Abraham accords might as well be ripped up. Israel's actions have managed to unite disparate groups.

The Palestinians and more importantly the rest of the world (mostly the "Global South"), will not accept a return to subjugation and the West if it wants to salvage/retain any sort of Global influence will have to make a choice.

P.s Saudi Arabia sued for peace with the Yemeni rebels. There’s been detente for a few months now. Hence a few rockets fired by Yemen were able to hit Israel after passing through Saudi airspace (which is a message in and of itself).
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/24/houthi-attacks-on-israel-jeopardise-saudi-peace-efforts-in-yemen

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/21/hamas-rejects-hostage-talks-as-un-declares-catastrophic-hunger-in-gaza

Yemen is mobilising it's army to

To fight who? www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29319423

They are in the midst of an eight year civil war. They are being blown apart with Saudi weapons so they are somewhat busy. And we have seen what happens when they mess with the shipping lane. Other countries will step in.
Egypt is bankrupt and relies on America good will so it can say what it likes but in reality?
Jordan? The only article I can find out that ridicules that assertion and of course some residents of Jordan will be angry. They have 900,000 refugees. The article also refers to the 'Zionist army' so I won't be taking that seriously.... unless you have any mainstream sources.
The 'Arab spring' is a damp squib.

great post, the idea Palestinians should even have to leave Palestine is in itself offensive. That is their land and home.

It's also not their problem, as spokespeople for Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and other countries in the region have repeatedly said to the incompetent Blinken over and over again. No ethnic cleansing, no displacement of Palestinians.

Do the Western countries really think that the region will accommodate 2.4 million refugees without being set on fire. And not because of terrorism, but because ordinary people are watching their Palestinians brothers and sisters being blown to pieces with Western wespons.

There's fighting on the Jordanian border right now between the army and civilians who want to go and help the Gazans fight. Yemen is mobilising it's army to fight. There’s a real risk of an actual "Arab Spring" because the people are so disappointed in their governments lack of action and seeming complicity with the West that they might rise up.

The Palestinian issue is a failure of Western (mostly America) diplomacy and it will be up to the West to solve it.

Ps. I find the repeated rhetoric that other Arab countries should take Palestinians ignorant at a minimum and somewhat racist in that presumes that Arab or Islamic countries are interchangeable and ignores that they're all unique with their own cultures and traditions.

@caringcarer they have all been burnt before.

Because they know Israel would never let them back in.

Because none of the countries that surround Palestine will take them in , even on a temporary basis.

@MercanDede yes it was at the time when people were saying well why don't the Gazans just listen and move south if they don't want to be killed.
They did a verify piece that showed bombing of a safe zone the day after IDF instructed civilians to move there
Which meant that the rest of the people in the north thought it was a trap resulting in many more avoidable deaths

BBC did something similar earlier in the war. Found as well that IDF would say evacuate to this spot and then bomb it 1-3days later.

So the priority is getting the remaining home? Well Israel knows what to do then.

There is no “winning” for anyone in this conflict. There will have to be negotiations at some point. Better to do it sooner than later.

@MissyB1 they all would have survived if they hadn't taken hostage in the first place.

The priority will be ensuring it doesn't happen again and getting the remaining home.

Well they’ve released some already, the IDF have shot some, and who knows how many more have survived the bombing and food /water shortages . But there will hostages that can still go home, are they a priority to the Israeli government or not?

They have said If there is a full ceasefire they will release all the hostages

Thing is though they Don't have all the Hostages do they?