Why Can't Gazans Leave?

blockade*

*small print: of items that can be used to manufacture arms to fire at Israeli citizens, such as the rockets which have been fired non-stop for the last 16 years (including 15 minutes into the most recent ceasefire) and which they seem to have no issues sourcing from elsewhere

Because they then proceeded to impose a blockade on Gaza for the last 16 years.

Which one? There were something like 3 different “conventions” in 2016. I think the one you mean was the attempt by the outgoing US administration that was kept secret until after the election in December. We don’t know what the deal was, precisely because it was a secret. Its existence was leaked by the outgoing Obama administration and it seems they over-sold what was essentially a single meeting and a US-centric proposal as a whole peace deal. There was also a disastrous attempt by the French in 2016 as well as another “meeting” of doubtable seriousness with the incoming Trump administration.

@cauliflowerwaterfall nieve what you want.
As I was saying, it's a lot easier to beleive the Israeli government - their mouthpiece is everywhere and they control the narrative.

It's also really concerning that Israel largely control the narrative on what is actually going on in Gaza, not even allowing international journalists to verify their version of events.
You just need to turn the TV on to listen to the IDF. The same is not true of the Palestinians. It requires effort to find out their point of view and all we have are fragments of info.

Well the Palestinian Ambassador to the UK is not going to say “it’s us LOL” is he. Palestine also doesn’t have one government representing them all. The facts speak for themselves. Israel has agreed to multiple peace deals and made huge concessions. In 2005, Israel forcibly and unilaterally moved 8k of their own people from Gaza - removed them from their homes, businesses, livelihoods - in exchange for peace which was never delivered on by Gazans.

I'm watching the news. The suffering is really off the scale. Little children and babies being bombed to bits and laying around on floors in hospitals that are barely functioning. The north and south. It's horrendous.

Israel has refused to sign up to peace deals. It's not correct to suggest that they want peace. Look at the Christmas 2016 deal.

@cauliflowerwaterfall I disagree. Neither side wants to find solutions.
Listen to Hisam Zomlot, the Palestinian ambassador to the UK. He talks about the numerous times Israel has refused to come to the table

Only half true. I lose count of how many peace deals Israel has agreed to and Palestine has rejected. Not just Hamas who cannot be reasoned with but all of the authorities who have governed/are governing the Palestinian territories. Israel’s demands in the overall conflict are actually relatively simple (basically “recognise Israel, you don’t even have to like us, or trade with us, or talk to us, you can pretend we don’t exist, just stop trying to wipe us out”) and they have proven they are even willing to cede land… Ariel Sharon even offered Jerusalem at one point. But how do you make peace with someone who wants to kill you.

Hamas are 100% despicable terrorists. They're monsters.
That doesn't mean that Israel is justified in what they are doing.

What happens if you build something in Palestine?

Power plant? Bombed https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/gaza-power-plant-destroyed-israeli-airstrike-100-palestinians-dead

Airport? Bombed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat_International_Airport#

Check the dates on the articles, this has been happening for decades.

@ElevenSeven what is naive is to believe that Israelis are genuinely trying to eradicate Hamas and that killing an indertminate number of innocent civilians is the only way.

For all their awfulness, Hamas are not the ones dropping the bombs. I'm sure they're contributing to the carnage by using civilians as human shields

And gang raping, beheading, mutilating with objects, kidnapping, shooting..

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/25/how-bombings-blockades-and-import-bans-caused-gaza-water-system-to-crumble

Israel has a long history of blockading the water supply and the tools needed to maintain it, maybe this article will give you a clue as to why there are issues with the water in Gaza. Clue: it's not the Gazan's fault.

"And when Israel inadvertently kills civilians that are being used as human shields to protect legitimate military targets that is a war crime committed by Hamas"

I wouldn't describe dropping thousands of bombs in a densely populated area as "inadvertently" killing thousands of people. The Israelis dont care how many people they kill or displace. They have said they'll carry on "no matter what". What do you think that means? For all their awfulness, Hamas are not the ones dropping the bombs. I'm sure they're contributing to the carnage by using civilians as human shields but this does not absolve the Israelis in any way.

why don't the Palestinian's do similar?

I would imagine there’s only so much you can do when you’re locked in an open air prison.

"Yet it’s only Israel (who - I’m not even making this up - has a team of lawyers following them around on operations) who is repeatedly accused of war crimes, seemingly for just having war declared on them."

With regards to the last part of your statement, underlined, don't you think it's more to do with the fact they are committing, you know, actual war crimes, and actual genocide? You know, the actual thing they are being accused of? Rather than just for "having war declared on them"?

🙄

How come the Gazans have mobile phones, how are they charging them?
I have heard they access to solar energy - do you think Israel controls the sun?
Also why do they not yet have their own water supply? The Israeli's sorted out salination plants years ago, why don't the Palestinian's do similar?

Politicians and diplomats from where? Most of the Arab word is quietly supporting Israel.

This is beyond naive.

There are diplomats and politicians who are experts in this conflict and who can sit around the table to work towards solutions, yes even with the terrorist Hamas. But neither Israel nor Hamas are interested in finding solutions and so the slaughter goes on.

Hamas have been accused of war crimes too?

The European Parliament designated Russia a state sponsor of terrorism, arguing that its military strikes on Ukrainian civilian targets such as energy infrastructure, hospitals, schools and shelters violated international law.

Does this sound familiar? Does this sound like Israel are bring held to the same standard as other armies?

Yet it’s only Israel (who - I’m not even making this up - has a team of lawyers following them around on operations) who is repeatedly accused of war crimes, seemingly for just having war declared on them.

This lists the war crimes each side (yes, each side, not just Israel) has been accused of.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_2023_Israel–Hamas_war#:~:text=According%20to%20Israeli%20military%20forensic,signs%20of%20rape%20and%20abuse.

"most clear cut case of genocide" is pretty damning from a human rights lawyer and the director of the NY UN High Commissioner for Human Rights

https://www.newarab.com/news/gaza-most-clear-cut-case-genocide-ex-un-official-says

From yesterday. Copied some of the article below

Craig Mokhiber, formerly head of the UN rights commission's New York office, has accused global powers of complicity in a 'clear-cut case of genocide' by Israel in Gaza.

A top UN official who recently resigned from his post in protest of Israel's war on Gaza has described the brutal campaign as the "most clear-cut case of genocide".

Craig Mokhiber, who was director of the New York office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, resigned from his position on 28 October, saying that the UN had failed to stop a genocide from occurring in Gaza - where Israel has killed more than 15,500 people in less than two months.
Mokhiber doubled down on that position in an interview with The New Arab’s Arabic-language sister site Al-Araby Al-Jadeed, published Sunday.

"I realise that the term 'genocide' is being politicised and misused in some circumstances - so as a human rights lawyer, I am careful to apply the term only when there is a prima facie case and the evidence is clear," Mokhiber said.

"Regarding Gaza, this is the most clear-cut case of genocide I have seen in my career," he said, using the United Nations Convention on Genocide as reference.

"We are witnessing genocide in the 21st century, and it seems that the United Nations is once again unable to stop it."

Mokhiber said Israel has been exceptionally brazen in declaring its intent to commit genocide - partly because Tel Aviv is not being held accountable by its allies.