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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Why Can't Gazans Leave?

960 replies

miniaturepixieonacid · 04/12/2023 13:25

There is probably a very simple answer to this that I missed in early news reports.

It's so awful watching News Feeds that essentially seem to say that Gazans are having to move around in a cat and mouse game with the IDF to avoid bombs but have nowhere left to go.

I am very aware that war has casualties and other countries are at war. I am not necessarily saying that IDF should stop fighting.

But this war is different in that all civilians seem to be trapped. Normally war creates refugees. Ukrainians, Afghans, Syrians - they were able to get out. Not all, I know, but movement was an option and it kept civilian casualties down. Why can't Gazans leave Gaza?

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75
EasterIssland · 05/12/2023 23:07

tescocreditcard · 05/12/2023 23:05

Israel doesn't need anybody. It's perfectly capable of fighting it's own battles.

I'm not sure people fully understand just how powerful Israel actually is.

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It needs the money that USA keeps providing every year tho.

NeonSoda · 05/12/2023 23:07

Outofmydepthnow · 05/12/2023 21:49

So I ask AGAIN ! Why can't Arab countries organise a humanitarian lift of women and children out of Gaza via the Rafa crossing ? Along the lines of the kinder transport against the Nazi take over of Germany in the face of overwhelming odds ?

If we empty Gaza of Palestinians, the Israelis will move straight in and take the land as their own.

They are not trying to destroy Hamas, they are trying to occupy Gaza and take it for their own.

tescocreditcard · 05/12/2023 23:05

Paul2023 · 05/12/2023 22:55

There’s no way a coalition of countries will join up with Isreal to help destroy Hamas ?

Israel doesn't need anybody. It's perfectly capable of fighting it's own battles.

I'm not sure people fully understand just how powerful Israel actually is.

Paul2023 · 05/12/2023 23:02

OuiOuiKitty · 05/12/2023 22:56

How will they know when Hamas is destroyed? Do you think it is possible to kill an ideology by killing people?

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Well they tried for 20 years to kill the Taliban before giving up..
It took five years for the world to destroy the Nazis..
I’ve no idea about Hamas though…

Paul2023 · 05/12/2023 22:59

MercanDede · 05/12/2023 22:57

“will join”? Israel is already getting tonnes of help.

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Was thinking more of troops on the ground ?

MercanDede · 05/12/2023 22:57

Paul2023 · 05/12/2023 22:55

There’s no way a coalition of countries will join up with Isreal to help destroy Hamas ?

“will join”? Israel is already getting tonnes of help.

OuiOuiKitty · 05/12/2023 22:56

tescocreditcard · 05/12/2023 22:50

Agreed. This war will continue until Israel achieves it's military objective which is to destroy Hamas. I predicted 6 weeks ago that this would either happen by year end or Spring at the latest. We will see. In any case, the sooner Hamas are destroyed the better, and thats about as good as it's going to get so we better all hope for a swift victory for Israel.

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How will they know when Hamas is destroyed? Do you think it is possible to kill an ideology by killing people?

Paul2023 · 05/12/2023 22:55

There’s no way a coalition of countries will join up with Isreal to help destroy Hamas ?

tescocreditcard · 05/12/2023 22:50

Paul2023 · 05/12/2023 22:42

I can’t see Isreal stopping until Hamas are gone and who knows how long that will take..

Agreed. This war will continue until Israel achieves it's military objective which is to destroy Hamas. I predicted 6 weeks ago that this would either happen by year end or Spring at the latest. We will see. In any case, the sooner Hamas are destroyed the better, and thats about as good as it's going to get so we better all hope for a swift victory for Israel.

Paul2023 · 05/12/2023 22:48

EasterIssland · 05/12/2023 22:01

Any reason why it has to be the Arabs? Why not the uk? Such a big net was created to host Ukrainians … is there any difference between an Ukrainian child and a Palestinian one?

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Numbers I think. Ukraine citizens had to have a passport and were spread around much of Europe, many in neighbouring Poland. Also many want to return home.
No one country is going to be willing to take in millions of Palestinian children.

Theres been two wars and millions of refugees in just two years , what if more wars happen ? No country can sustain millions of refugees, no matter how heart breaking this is.

NotABeliever · 05/12/2023 22:44

paladium · 05/12/2023 22:40

@RedToothBrush why does Israel have a say in who crosses the Egypt / Palestine border?

Because Israel controls everything to do with Gaza since before this war. And because other countries don't dare to interfere because the Israeli government can get away with anything.

Paul2023 · 05/12/2023 22:42

I can’t see Isreal stopping until Hamas are gone and who knows how long that will take..

Paul2023 · 05/12/2023 22:41

I know this is very obvious, but it’s so hard watching the news and seeing young children hurt, being treated on a hospital floor

paladium · 05/12/2023 22:40

@RedToothBrush why does Israel have a say in who crosses the Egypt / Palestine border?

RedToothBrush · 05/12/2023 22:38

Outofmydepthnow · 05/12/2023 21:49

So I ask AGAIN ! Why can't Arab countries organise a humanitarian lift of women and children out of Gaza via the Rafa crossing ? Along the lines of the kinder transport against the Nazi take over of Germany in the face of overwhelming odds ?

A news article from last month:
https://www.itv.com/news/2023-11-04/britons-being-used-as-bargaining-chips-as-rafah-crossing-temporarily-closed

A British woman has been denied passage from Gaza to Egypt via the Rafah crossing for a second time, with her mother claiming foreign nationals are being "used as bargaining chips".

Zaynab Wandawi, 29, from Salford, Greater Manchester, travelled to Gaza in early October with her British-Palestinian husband and his relatives for a wedding before the Israel-Hamas war began.

Ms Wandawi, an English language teacher, and a group of 12 family members – 10 of whom are British nationals – attempted to cross the border into Egypt on Wednesday, but were told their names were not on the list.

The group were told their names were on the list on Saturday, but were turned away again amid disagreement between the Palestinian and Israeli authorities in control of the crossing, according to her mother, Lalah Ali-Faten.

My bold. Only people approved and agreed by Palestinian and Israeli authorities have been allowed to cross, because this is who controls the exit. Its not just about Egypt controlling the entrance to their country.

EasterIssland · 05/12/2023 22:01

Outofmydepthnow · 05/12/2023 21:49

So I ask AGAIN ! Why can't Arab countries organise a humanitarian lift of women and children out of Gaza via the Rafa crossing ? Along the lines of the kinder transport against the Nazi take over of Germany in the face of overwhelming odds ?

Any reason why it has to be the Arabs? Why not the uk? Such a big net was created to host Ukrainians … is there any difference between an Ukrainian child and a Palestinian one?

Outofmydepthnow · 05/12/2023 21:49

So I ask AGAIN ! Why can't Arab countries organise a humanitarian lift of women and children out of Gaza via the Rafa crossing ? Along the lines of the kinder transport against the Nazi take over of Germany in the face of overwhelming odds ?

OkInSmallDoses · 05/12/2023 20:02

That report is depressing. I do not understand the West’s inability to see what is going on.

The Israeli government has oppressed and controlled the Palestinians for so long, whilst managing to dominate the narrative and make us see them as victims.

Whilst children are being maimed and killed. Hamas may be using civilians as human shields but carpet bombing those civilians is not the only option.

They say their goal is to get rid of Hamas but if they think they’re going to do that by carpet bombing Gaza they are idiots. Every Palestinian child who has lost a parent or sibling in this genocide is a future recruit for Hamas.

The only positive of this sorry episode is that more people, Jews included, are waking up to the evils and lies of the Israeli government.

feralunderclass · 05/12/2023 18:43

stomachameleon · 05/12/2023 17:11

@feralunderclass what happened to the water salinisation plants Israel left? How much water actually comes from Israel?

This fact sheet explains Israel's occupation of water in Gaza and illegal tapping and water extraction for the illegal settlements. It is virtually impossible for Palestinians to get a permit.

Israel's Occupation of Water

The Occupation of Water

The legacy of Israel’s 50-year occupation of the Palestinian territories has been systematic human rights violations on a mass scale. One of its consequences is the impact of Israel’s discriminatory policies on Palestinians’ access to clean and safe wa...

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/

NotABeliever · 05/12/2023 17:40

For all of you who believe the Israeli government's narrative, please listen to this interview and educate yourselves.

edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2023/12/04/amanpour-state-epartment-official-resignation-josh-paul.cnn

cauliflowerwaterfall · 05/12/2023 17:37

Rocket fire on Israeli civilians has been constant since withdrawal. To those who expect Israelis to sit there and solemnly let rockets land on their heads: err no. The best Israel can do is control components passing through its border and shoot them down. Gazans clearly are getting rockets from somewhere. If they can get hold of an endless supply of RPGs and Kalashnikovs, water pipes and chocolate biscuits should be easy. But no Hamas dig them up and turn them into rockets too because they don’t care about civilians. Gazan life would be so much easier if they gave up on trying to kill Jews.

stomachameleon · 05/12/2023 17:11

@feralunderclass what happened to the water salinisation plants Israel left? How much water actually comes from Israel?

feralunderclass · 05/12/2023 16:08

Gettingcolder · 05/12/2023 15:29

@Parker231 @OuiOuiKitty

Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2007. They have only retaliated when provoked by hostage taking and rocket fire, so I am not sure what control over Gazan's you are referring to other than Israel protecting its own borders and preventing Hamas from importing weapons.

They might have withdrawn settlements but have kept Gaza under siege ever since. This notion that Israel left and LT them get on with things is complete rubbish. EVERYTHING that is intended to go into Gaza is monitored and controlled. Water, food, building supplies, school books, medicine - even calories are controlled.

OuiOuiKitty · 05/12/2023 15:51

Gettingcolder · 05/12/2023 15:29

@Parker231 @OuiOuiKitty

Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2007. They have only retaliated when provoked by hostage taking and rocket fire, so I am not sure what control over Gazan's you are referring to other than Israel protecting its own borders and preventing Hamas from importing weapons.

I'm not arguing with someone who doesn't want to admit what Israel does. I'd rather spend my time working on the really boring Web design I've been procrastinating on 😴

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