Why Can't Gazans Leave?

I see what you are saying and absolutely support a homeland for Jewish people. Israel (as a government) have treated Palestinians appallingly though. I've only started to read into the Zionist Movement deeply fairly recently and it seems that the initial intention was to wipe them out. At the beginning of this conflict a spokesman for the Balfour Project said looking back it was never supposed to be like this, Palestinian land was supposed to stay that way, and that the Palestinians have had to pay the price for Britain signing the Balfour Declaration. Israel, bolstered by UK and US has oppressed the Palestinians beyond belief, and it has been a purposeful, apartheid regime.

@miniaturepixieonacid thank you for being so open. The history is definitely more complicated than it’s presented. Jews are indigenous to the land but colonisation displaced millions and the Jews who remained became a persecuted minority in their own homeland for thousands of years. The Jews who were expelled or displaced never really found a new home, they were persecuted in every country they went to. Jews were even expelled from England at one point. So it’s frustrating that now Jews DO have a homeland, antizionism means in effect that we are neither wanted here nor there, which doesn’t feel great. And the Jews who have lived in the Levant uninterrupted for thousands of years, being massacred & persecuted, are often written out of history for convenience. That they were small in numbers but had an equal stake in the future of the land and of course were more than happy to accept Jewish people fleeing pogroms or genocide in Europe and then Jewish refugees afterwards. As well as there being many nice, kind, humanitarian Arabs too who didn’t feel threatened by desperate Jewish refugees. So there was in fact a second opinion held by the people who lived there at the time. And the idea of Israel being a colonial project is misguided: it could only be created because the land was colonised, but the British were not particularly keen on the creation of the state of Israel. Both Arabs and Jews were carrying out terrorist attacks on British occupiers at that time. It was more of a UN project. Sadly the UN has changed beyond recognition but it did used to try to do good. And of course at the end of the 1940s there were millions and millions of people being settled, plus the division of the Levant was no different to the carving up of all colonised lands after the great empires collapsed.

That doesn’t mean of course not caring about Gazans today. Their situation is desperate. But people talk about Israel in existential terms, and then they are surprised when Israel acts like it faces an existential threat.

The USA are duplicitous Snakes. They're saying one thing in public, whilst secretly planning to assist Israel displace the Palestinians.

The reason why it took them so long after October the 7th to ask Israel to consider civilian casualties (aka you can kill them but please not so publicly, it's making Biden look bad) is because Anthony Blinken was running around threatening Arab states to take Palestinian "refugees" who thankfully stayed united and refused.

The plan was and still is to displace the Palestinians to the Sinai. Egypt was offered $20 billion to wipe it's debts if it accepted.
https://www.israelhayom.com/2023/11/29/senior-us-lawmakers-review-plan-that-conditions-aid-on-arab-countries-receiving-gazans/

Will either side willingly give up though ? I don’t think so at the moment..

Even tho I don’t agree with the reason they’ve blocked it. I’m glad they’re not sending extra cash. Thought Israel was a rich country and didn’t need help from anyone as per some comments!

Respect to Guterres.

Haha. Bananas stuff from the ones committing genocide.

And Israel asking for guterres to resign for asking for a ceasefire as per BBC

The UN calling for a ceasefire

@feralunderclass Can we cancel it here too? It seems obscene to be jolly when I am watching the destruction of an entire culture and people. I'll buy a few things from Palestinian companies, but that's it.

Just saw on the news that Christmas has been cancelled this year in Palestine. Bethlehem is usually very busy now with pilgrims from all around the world, but hotels now have shut. Father Ishaq from the Lutheran Church said "this year Jesus will be reborn not in a stable, but in the rubble, in solidarity with the people of Gaza". 😢

I know. But they won’t specially if there is elections next year.

Criticism isn't enough. US needs to impose financial sanctions on Israel. The two state solution has been empty words on Israel's part.

Think USA criticised this settlements few days ago

@Parkingt111 They are really using the war to ramp up a takeover. Where are these displaced Palestinians going to go, I wonder.

The location it has been approved also shows that they don't intend for a two state solution

The Ir Amim organisation, which tracks the construction of Jewish neighbourhoods in East Jerusalem, said an access road to the site would have to be built over Palestinian land.
The AFP news agency quoted Hagit Ofran from Peace Now as saying: "If it weren't for the war [between Israel and Hamas], there would be a lot of noise.
"It's a highly problematic project for the continuity of a Palestinian state."
Israel considers the entire city of Jerusalem its capital, though this is not recognised by almost all the international community. Palestinians claim East Jerusalem as their future capital of a hoped-for independent state.

I have just seen that Israel have approved further 1700 settlements In the occupied territories which will also be in East Jerusalem today

I have to agree now with what @feralunderclass has been saying after I read this today
How can there be a two state solution after this? It's also clear that Netanyahu and the government don't want it

It was very sad to read

@feralunderclass It seems unlikely, but if the Israeli military occupation withdrew and full control handed to Palestinians, the settlers could stay, but living in a Palestinian state. I know that Likud and Netanyahu don't want 2 states, but it seems to me the 2 state would just have to be imposed via a series of sticks and carrots for both parties. Of course, whether there's any international motivation to do that is dubious.

In an ideal world there would be two states, but Israel have refused to cooperate with all proposed resolutions. Very recently Ben Gvir said the settlements will only get larger until the whole of West Bank is Jewish. Daniella Weiss, former mayor of a settlement said she used to have talks with Ariel Sharon to decide where the next settlement was going to be placed. By 'pockmarking' the WB with settlements Palestinians are geographically enclaved, and physically there is no chance of a Palestinian state. This was always the plan, they want to drive the Palestinians out, take the West Bank "by hook or by crook".

I always thought 2 state on 67 borders would be a good start, but I do hear people saying it's impossible. Ultimately the people living there have to work it out, I suppose.

@BeggyMitchell If their sole intent was to wipe out Hamas, why are they not allowing aid in, starving and dehydrating everyone. Cruel and unnecessary.

IDF are not taking precautions to protect civilians.

They are not allowing in anywhere near enough aid. They are starving and dehydrating them. This is a war crime.

They are not allowing safe zones. They are bombing them. This is a war crime.

These are war crimes and completely unnecessary with regards to the stated objective of "taking out Hamas".

It is therefore a clear cut genocide.

Former ICC chief prosecutor: Israel’s siege of Gaza is a 'genocide'

not strictly true, egypt won't take refugees because once palestinians leave they will lose their homeland and won't be allowed back.

It wouldn't be if the filthy cowards that are Hamas didn't hide behind humanitarian targets like schools, hospitals, mosques.

It's fuckung tragic and depressing.

"hunting down the culprits" is not the same as collective punishment, genocide and ethnic cleansing. War crimes are being committed on a daily basis.