Why Can't Gazans Leave?

Where the political wing of Hamas live/Hamas finances is pretty irrelevant to a discussion about a potential home for millions of refugees

And yes it's a fact that Qatars generosity has been exceptional even given their immense wealth

But like I say all you do is sneer and don't provide any suggestions practical or otherwise as to how Qatar might 'step up' in this crisis

@stomachameleon but what do you mean by step up
So in terms of aid I can see that all have been helping but again it's limited how much and what can come in

Giving asylum? The main reason they are refusing is because they know that they won't be allowed to return
If assurances was given that they could and a solid assurance that would come with consequences if this was later taken away and then despite all that they still didn't allow Gazans in temporarily then that would be a different issue.

Step up and be more involved in a two state solution and the future of Palestine? Then yes that I agree with
But that can't happen right now whilst the war is happening

There are many civilians of the Arab countries who also think the government's should step up. But the way they want them to step up would include military assistance aswell as financial repercussions (oil) and that wouldn't be good for Israel at all

I think this is the sort of escalation that the US is warning about and that's the sort of stepping up that we don't want

I think it could be feasible to take at least children. Morally this should be done by those funding and providing the bombs. I would have thought. So Europe, Israel and the US? Probably those countries have issues, not least that it sets a precedent for taking more if the push to expand Israel's borders continues. But, I still don't know if a ceasefire could happen next week and a massive push to rebuild Gaza and secure 2 states. It's difficult to foresee, even if it looks hopeless right now.

@Efacsen where do the hierarchy of Hamas live? Where is millions of aid filtered through? And by whom?

Exceptional.....

All the countries that surround that area (even the one burnt by Hamas before) could step up quite frankly.

Yes Qatar have done alot
In aid and in playing a part in negotiations.
From all the Arab countries they have probably done the most

But again that's just my own thoughts
Maybe I am wrong, and maybe it's something that there is no feasible way to carry out. I do wish the option was atleast available for those who wanted it though.

Actually that's not true.
33.4% are American or European descent.

A lot of Israelis have some European ancestry. Very few have mostly European ancestry.

What with the moving around a lot :/

They also had issues before 1948 as am I happy to rattle off if you like?

I know that it seems an unlikely situation and there are too many questions as where they will go and I can fully understand the mistrust that they will be allowed back even if assurances were given
But I think at the minimum, for those who have family elsewhere and if their families are willing to atleast take in their children whilst the war is happening then that would save some lives

Too many children are dying
If I was in Gaza and I had a sibling in the UK who would be happy to look after my children for me during the duration of the war then I would take that up in a heartbeat

My thought process has always been saving some is better than none

So exactly how would you want to see Qatar 'step up' given that this discussion is about the fate of 2.3 million Gazan civilians?

You sneer at whatever Qatar do or provide which has been exceptional

@Efacsen I said ' step up' not necessarily take them. They chose to financially back and keep the elite of Hamas so looking after some injured and orphaned is the least they can do.

Will this prove to be the tipping point in the 'Leave or Die' dilemma for more than a million ordainary palestinians in gaza?

Israel accused Palestinian militants on Thursday of having launched rockets from within a zone in the southern Gaza Strip where it has said civilians fleeing the now eight-week-old war can find safety.

This is the hugely overcrowded safe zone of Al Mawasi in southern gaza

Also, most Israeli settlers are from Europe and the US….it never was their homeland, they might argue historically but they weren’t born there, the families weren’t born there. Netanyahu is Polish, his right hand man is Polish. Most of the IDF were born in the US.
If you applied the historic right to a homeland and applied it everywhere, the the whole worlds borders would look very different. The original Jews and Arabs who lived in Palestine were happy to live side by side as neighbours, then 75 years ago it all changed. Oh and it was Palestine, my father served there, I have his maps and photographs from the 1940’s.

You can't fly people out of Gaza.

The Gaza International Airport was shut down amid Israeli-Palestinian fighting in 2001, barely two years after it opened. Israel bombed the radar station and control tower on 4 December 2001 and bulldozers cut the runway on 10 January 2002, rendering the airport inoperable. Today it lies in ruins.

If you are going by that then Southern England should be occupied by Rome 🙄
Israel were given some land in Palestine by the west ( who gave the west authority to do that) from which they have consistently grabbed and stolen more and more. They now illegally occupied land in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, and have total control over the lives of the people of Gaza.
Israel have never offered a “very good deal”. They want the Palestinians out into Sinai so they can have all of Gaza and the potential oil fields of that coast. This was always their plan, they unfortunately got an excuse to execute it on Oct 7th.

@stomachameleon uber wealthy Qatar have provided vast amounts of humanitarian aid far in excess of any other country - they are also medically evacuating 1500 injured gazans and looking to accommodate gazan war orphans

Have a look at a map and see how far Qatar is from Gaza - how many planes and how long do you think it would take to move any significant fraction of 1 million people

Nearer arab states are almost all universally poor

@Parkingt111 One issue with taking refugees from Gaza is that they won't be able to return, though. If the government of Israel continues to be right wing I think that's likely. This also means that the plan, which some current politicians support, of taking some parts of Lebanon and Syria may cause further refugees. At this point we'd all be looking at major destabilisation of the region and a refugee crisis. So I suppose these kind of issues are what countries may be considering.

@Parkingt111 I agree with what you are saying and I am hoping (in the interim) the surrounding (particularly Uber wealthy) countries step up.
Qatar?

To be fair I don't know that much about Hamas, when I have been there I didn't hear much about them and I certainly don't recognize what posters on here are saying about how they terrorise, coerce and tyranize Gazans. From what I've read though of their most recent charter I don't see they are saying that they want to kill all Jews though.

When you have been where? Gaza?
They have reaffirmed their statement recently. On the back of raping, murdering and mutilating men, women and children.

Oh those cuddly terrorists.

There’s no denying the Palestinians have been oppressed and suffered greatly, but the narrative that Israel was built on the strategic oppression of an indigenous people by a tiny minority (all ethnic Jews are indigenous to Israel btw, not a tiny minority of them) is imposing a Western centric/white colonial narrative and viewpoint upon the situation in order to reinforce an antisemitic ideology and bias.

Conflating the occupied territories as they currently exist to the establishment of the state of Israel as all part of the same colonialist endeavour bolsters Westernised, ideological/political anti-Israel rhetoric and seeks to reinforce division and opposition, rather than mutual interest and co-operation. Israel exists and it’s not going anywhere, the legitimacy of Israel and the legitimacy (or lack of, really) of the occupied territories are two different things. The excessive focus on Israel’s right to exist and the resentment that it does only serves to overshadow and distract from the reality of the current situation and work that needs to be done for the Palestinian people.

If the welfare and freedom of the Palestinian people really was Hamas, their associates and backers’ first concern, it’s not clear how they thought launching a savage and depraved large scale attack on Israel was going to further this cause with a workable, co-operative solution. Hamas and the other terrorist groups in Gaza and the West Bank were not born out of the despair of oppression, they were mostly born of a violent internal Palestinian power struggle, financed by external interests and corruption. They’re only really in alignment with regards to their hatred of Jews and their desire for control of the Palestinian people and territories.

Anyway, I agree with @Parkingt111 that at this point, preserving life is the most important thing. The Gazans who want to leave should be allowed to, and there should be greater international pressure and support to allow this to happen, coupled with a guarantee that they will be able to return when the conflict is over.

I've been thinking we need to offer asylum for a while now. I know it means giving in in some way, but I think it's better to save who we can. There are petitions on petition parliament UK. Don't know if they have much effect, but it's one way to get politicians to discuss the issues.

@Livinginanotherworld which bit do you want a source for?
Individually those facts are right.

For anyone wanting to see the real picture in Gaza, follow these brave photo-journalists on X
Hind Khoudary
MoTaz
Ali Jahdalla

you really do need to educate yourself and stop spouting statements like this. I can’t even be bothered to put you right.

Do you have an independent source for that ridiculous comment ?

You’re being facetious but if a persecuted minority accepts a deal to take up less space than the majority in exchange for not being a persecuted minority anymore, and the majority say “no - even less space than us is still too much space - we think you should have none at all.” I think that’s a sad indictment on those who persecuted them in the first place.