Why Can't Gazans Leave?

These images are from sky news
So verified
If this isn't going to stop then tell me what will be left of the people?
The images coming live from the ground are much much worse
Unbearable to see
We are watching a genocide unfold
Can we atleast not try and save some?

Just for information, nothing to do with the thread really, dozens of Hamas terrorists just surrendered to IDF

I understand all your points
But hundreds have been killed in the last 24 hours
This is Gaza right now
If there isn't a ceasefire and they can't leave then they will most likely die

I’ve seen similar from several different sources.

There's no "temporarily" going out of Gaza. Once they're out, Gazans won't return. A friend of mine works in a company I can't mention, she accessed information that there's talks on investments in Gaza right now. I'm talking about big named hotel chains and luxury resorts. If that is true (which is believable to me given how the war unfolded so far), Gaza is already being treated as Israeli territories and they're formulating actual plans for how Gaza should look like after the war is over.

And ofcourse it goes without saying Hamas aswell
But I don't see any possibility at all of Hamas ruling after this war

Just to clarify I wasn't suggesting that all Gazans should move or be re-located

Just that those who desire a temporary safe passage out should have the option to do so, especially for the sake of the children. The key word 'temporary' as it has become increasingly clear that there are no safe spaces in Gaza. Ofcourse the question and debate on why this came about in the first place is totally separate but just thinking aloud at one practical way to preserve life.

I am also not of the opinion that Israel should not exist. I have my issues with the settlers in the west bank and with the treatment of Palestinians by the Isrseli government and IDF aswell as many unfair practices.
But that does not mean I wish for it to cease to exist and regardless of anyone wishing that, it isn't going to happen.

My wish was to see two states, side by side with equal rights for all and self determination for both. For the leaders to create an environment where this can prosper

It doesn't seem likely any more, especially after yesterday's news of further expansion In the occupied territories which would mean that the Palestinian hope of having east Jerusalem as their capital is further compromised.
Also not with the current state of Gaza being almost uninhabitable after the war ends.

Nope. That poster is replying to someone that is suggesting other countries should take the Palestinian refugees(and probably they won’t be allowed to come back)

That is someone accusing Israelis of doing that, not someone suggesting it should be done.

For example.
or for example
https://www.timesofisrael.com/centrist-mk-says-call-on-european-countries-to-take-gaza-refugees-was-misunderstood/amp/

Who has suggested that?

I don’t think Israel people should leave and live in USA. Same way I don’t think Palestinians should be kicked of their houses and pushed into other countries as some posters are suggesting.

How many Americans speak Hebrew? You want to round up 9 million people including half of the world’s Jews and send them to a country they’ve never been before, they have no connection to, very few synagogues, very little Jewish food, who speak a different language, who commit more hate crimes against that group per person than any other minority, and are all armed with guns? Thanks but no thanks.

Well considering the US is funding Israel and is fully complicit with the war crimes committed, maybe they should offer a big chunk of their country (that they themselves occupied) and made Israel the 51st state of America. Their values of warmongering are more aligned.

With respect the time for Europeans pondering on where every Jew should be deported to is over. It wasn’t like… only Germans in uniform were murderously antisemitic. The uniforms don’t turn you into an antisemite. Swastikas aren’t black magic where you’re fine and then you wear one and suddenly you want to murder Jews. German society at that time was racist. Germans knew about the final solution while it was happening. These were the people that turned a blind eye and sold us out (and also sold out their own neighbours, sons and daughters for other reasons like being disabled or gay, knowing what would happen to them) they were not the bewildered innocent Judeophiles they get painted as now. There was a reason that in the late 40s Germany (both Germanies, remember) was not on the list of dream destinations to ship the world’s unwanted Jewish refugees to. Jews were still in refugee camps for years after the war. Some survived Auschwitz or Belsen and then died in UN refugee camps. But they would have taken the camps over Germany. The vast majority of Jews killed in the Holocaust by the way were not German Jews and didn’t speak German - they were taken from occupied countries such as France, Hungary and Poland. If you destroy Israel you have 9 million refugees to deal with, including half the Jewish population of planet Earth.

Not true. Most Israelis cannot be considered settlers at all, and those that are is disputed. The majority of Israeli Jews are expelled Mizrahim. Many of the Jewish children and babies murdered on October 7th and smeared in the West as deserving it for being “settlers” were living on land only ever occupied by Jews, displaced nobody, and had never set foot in Europe - they were born in Israel, their parents were born in Israel, their grandparents were born in Israel…

My father was Israeli. He was born in Israel. His parents were Persian Jews. When he came to the UK in the late 80s to study he was the first member of his family to ever travel to Europe.

I have Israeli cousins, second cousins, their children, aunts, great aunts… all born in Israel. Some have been to Europe on holiday but that’s about it. When they speak English or French or whatever they are speaking a second language.

And it's worse Netanhayu is on record saying Muslims are worse than Nazis recalling that at one point Hitler wanted to solve the Jewish question by mass deportations to Palestine but the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem said no so he pivoted to the Holocaust. If you unpack that statement it's a deeply evil revisionism of history paving the way for the dehumanisation of Palestinian people. Douglas Murray likes to riff of similar as well preparing the ground.

Fair point but in 1945 I would probably have found it difficult to distinguish between the 2. That said my late father who fought in ww2 and ended his service with the Royal Signals going up from Italy to Germany was utterly shocked at the destruction he observed as they move through German cities to Berlin. He remembered vividly a night when all Germans were forced to go to screenings of newsreels from the death camps so they could be forcibly reminded of what their people had allowed to happen and far too many had been complicit with.

@Itisyourturntowashthebath Alternative is a good way to put it. :)

The UN plan gave 56% of the land to the Jews.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

Some of your facts are quite alternative.

@Parkingt111 of course that's what I mean. For any way forward I think cooperation from the surrounds countries is paramount. It will send a strong signal. I accept at the moment any discussion of afterwards seems a long way off.

@Efacsen I don't care if it's the crocheting and knitting wing of Hamas. They allow them to live their in luxury whilst they pontificate about Israel not letting aid through etc.

But I think it's the same with any country with real clout. They may shake their heads and say one thing but collectively they know Hamas need to go.

How do you know I am sneering? Extreme wealth is never irrelevant when it could alleviate what is happening. You are making excuses.

It was the Nazis not the German population. Same as it’s the Israeli government not the Israel population and Hamas and not the Palestinians.,

We should have kicked the Germans out to scrubland on the edge of the earth for their crimes against humanity after quite rightly annihilating their ruling class. In their place holocaust survivors could have the pick of German real estate backed up by allied protection for a hundred years to ensure the reversal was safe and sustainable.They were the real animals collectively and individually but we didn't and here we are. Some poor desert dwellers driven virtually insane by an irreconcilable injustice go rampaging against all moral norms.

Jordan has made it clear that they condemn the killing of civilians and that there has not been enough precautions taken to avoid this aswell as allowing in sufficient aid

They have also said that creating conditions that will push out or render civilians in the Occupied west bank to no longer be able to live there safely, will mean they will cease the peace treaty they have with Israel

I think she is specifically talking about the settlements- I know loads of American’s move there but I’ve no idea if that figure is true.