Why Can't Gazans Leave?

@OuiOuiKitty family.

Where I live if a politician does his tax wrong he is ousted.
That's not an instantaneous thing though is it?
There are lots of things at play. Political system that relies on coalition governments, viable alternatives and quite Frankly its war.... it brings out the worst at times. If you read up about how Netanyahu came into power this time it might explain a few things.

Whether you like it or not Israel is in mourning. It has people missing and has been through an atrocity. It's only been two months.

It will happen (change) I imagine but not now. Things don't happen overnight. We are only privy to what is played out over the internet.

These are just my thoughts anyway.

I just want to add that the men arrested will have been bound to protect the IDF soldiers and make it easier for fewer people to guard them and also they were stripped because of the use by Hamas of suicide vests. Not everything is because Israel is evil, some of it is just practical safety.

None of your links work

Fact No organs were 'harvested' at Alder Hey Hospital or any other hospital in the UK

They were histology specimens mainly from PMs which had either been retained for research purposes without parents consent or had been mislaid and not returned to the parents for burial

They definitely weren't 'harvested' for the purpose of transplantation which is the normal accepted meaning of the expression

.

Three hospitals in the UK. Alder Hey children's Hospital, the harvesting of organs etc from babies. It was quite a scandal at the time . 1999 i think.
Below are wikipedia and Guardian articles.

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=04510564c1ad11c4JmltdHM9MTcwMTk5MzYwMCZpZ3VpZD0wYTA2MzE1MC1iMWNiLTZmMGYtMjI3Zi0yMzNiYjBhODZlMDEmaW5zaWQ9NTIyNA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=0a063150-b1cb-6f0f-227f-233bb0a86e01&psq=babies+organis+harvested+in+uk+hospital+trusts&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9lbi53aWtpcGVkaWEub3JnL3dpa2kvQWxkZXJfSGV5X29yZ2Fuc19zY2FuZGFs&ntb=1

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=c33393caf44b5948JmltdHM9MTcwMTk5MzYwMCZpZ3VpZD0wYTA2MzE1MC1iMWNiLTZmMGYtMjI3Zi0yMzNiYjBhODZlMDEmaW5zaWQ9NTI0Ng&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=0a063150-b1cb-6f0f-227f-233bb0a86e01&psq=babies+organis+harvested+in+uk+hospital+trusts&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cudGhlZ3VhcmRpYW4uY29tL3NvY2lldHkvYWxkZXJoZXkvc3RvcnkvMCwsNDUwNzM2LDAwLmh0bWw&ntb=1

Sorry? I didn't say anyone deserved anything. I think you read my post wrong. I was simply asking why if something is deemed unacceptable to so many of the population, why are people not held to account when they do things that are considered widely unacceptable. I've consistently said I believe in non violent measures to resolve the issues between Israel and Palestinians, I don't condone any massacres. I feel like you are trying to shut down my question for some reason by accusing me of saying something that I didn't.

@OuiOuiKitty it’s a bit like saying British civilians deserve an October 7th because Nigel Farage is a thing

Well they obviously are identifiable as some of them have been identified as civilians by people who know them.

You say you know people in Israel? Do you know why these politicians that say these things are not held to account for them if this is not the mainstream view? Where I live if a politician does his tax wrong he is ousted. If there was a sniff of a politician saying some of the outrageous things Israeli politicians have said they would be arrested for hate speech. I keep hearing most Israelis don't agree with this in regards to the dehumanising, genocidal rhetoric that politicians have been using and also in regards to settlers but I can't understand why if it is not seen as acceptable it is accepted?

It's clear psychological torture to pretend to semi-naked bound men that you are about to shoot them

Seems a bit strange to deny that

You seem to have some difficulty remaining focussed on the the topic being discussed - so I'll leave it there so as not to waste any more of my time

“Psychological warfare” is not that though - it’s like in the case of the Bibas family where people were led to believe they were alive for weeks, and then they were traded to other terrorists, and then they were killed but Hamas blamed Israel, and now nobody knows if they’re alive or dead but Hamas broadcast footage of the father being told his wife and babies were killed. Or when Hamas contacted the mother of the clearly dead Shani Louk to tell her that her daughter was alive and well and had been taken to Gaza for medical treatment. Or when hostages were led to believe they were being taken to their executions and only realised they were being released when they saw the Red Cross vehicles, but still had to get past an angry jeering mob banging and climbing on their vehicles. It means that level of psychological torture.

If they were rounding up eg Muslim women and forcing them to take off their hijabs for no good reason, something like that would also count.

But this is not it. You will see images like this from Russia/Ukraine. This is the easiest & safest way for soldiers to check if they are carrying weapons. “Strip down to your underwear, come out, ok we accept your surrender.” It’s also the terrorists putting themselves in a position of vulnerability as a gesture of their surrender. It might be a bit embarrassing but it’s not carried out for the purposes of humiliation, it doesn’t hurt them and it’s not going to leave permanent psychological damage, which would be criminal.

The photo is of the surrender. It’s newsworthy. It is also very demoralising for Hamas and could end the war quicker. And if you’re offended you saw the image of the surrender, let me ask you this: if Israel had said “150 Hamas fighters surrendered to us today” with no image, would you believe them? I mean you’ve seen it and you STILL don’t believe it, but you accept at least SOMETHING happened.

I wasn't making excuses.
I agree with you.
I hold my head in my hands sometimes. Those extremist views are not shared by most people I know in Israel.
And to broadcast them? I don't understand.

But the higher your position the bigger the impact and the higher the responsibility.
If it was from civilians then its easier to ignore

These statements keep coming from people in government positions or atleast senior supposedly respected positions

It's really not the same thing

Also I could be wrong but I don’t think the terrorists who were captured in Israel on October 7th count as POWs? I still don’t think their images should have been shown but it’s not a breach of international law.

The terrorists that surrendered definitely don’t count since their faces are hidden/obscured, they’re not identifiable.

I don’t think it’s much of a good faith attack anyway though because in the case of Israel it’s always “pics or it didn’t happen” and then they publish images and it’s like “you showed us pictures? How could you!”

My personal view is the IDF can’t win anyway so they should not bother publishing images, especially those of murdered Israelis who can’t consent and identifiable terrorists.

It's not just a matter of posting images for confirmation though is it?

It's posting images of humiliating treatment ie semi-naked
It's posting images of them kneeling in front of a grave like pit ie psychological torture

It's not really defensible and is confirming and broadcasting ill-treatment of POW
It's shooting themselves in the foot

Not 'mostly' that's not accurate www.timesofisrael.com/idf-officials-2-civilian-deaths-for-every-1-hamas-fighter-killed-in-gaza/

I would hazard a guess that Israel did it to humiliate them, and not for the reasons you've mentioned above.

And they probably needed to put out a story that they were actually finding some Hamas members (though these men seem to be civilians taken from a school). It doesn't look good if you're mostly killing woman and children.

@Parkingt111 I agree with that. Why indeed? Even if you thought it.
But then I think that regularly on here (and I mean both sides of the equation) people seem unable to censor themselves.

@Livinginanotherworld you can't make things up as you go along. You said they were all being executed yesterday.

You are not supposed to post images of POWs… sadly too common these days. In the case of Israel they sometimes do it because people are over-skeptical and will deny deny deny until something is in their face (and then they’ll still deny because now it comes from Israel lol) but still not ok. But it’s not unique to Israel either - even Ukraine has been broadcasting confessions of Russian POWs. Hamas have broadcast executions of POWs like Noa Marciano. My personal opinion is people need to not re-share images of POWs from anywhere.

Why would the deputy mayor of Jerusalem post things like this without consequence knowing it will inflame the situation

That's one thing I don't understand and it's not only him. Time and time again people in significant positions within Israel continuously post such rhetoric knowing it will be viewed not only by people within Israel but the rest of the world too

I know that not everyone thinks like that but it does seem like since the attacks it has now become accepted to have such views

It's like a competition to see who can be the most outraged/patronising/obsessed.

I think some posters have literally nothing else to do other than doom surf looking for bad things on the internet to get even more outraged about.

Batshit

I just saw this too
He also called them all 'Muslim-Nazis'

The post is still there on his x account

Seems like Efacsen has mastered time travel, as they managed to travel back to 1949 and "make up a new law". 🤔
https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war

Sadly it seems that their rights have already been infringed

''POWs cannot be subjected to insult or exposure to public curiosity. To protect their dignity and safety, their images and personal information must not be publicized.''

IRCS guardians of the Third Geneva Convention

I read elsewhere that the images were posted on Telegram by the soldiers involved and that the IDF is very unhappy about it as it's happened a few times previously

I would laugh at this if I wasn’t crying already !