Why Can't Gazans Leave?

A bit of a shift? @Silence1 @Parkingt111 the other stuff he said was about being right behind Israel

Biden has also said that Israel is starting to “lose support” from the international community due to its indiscriminate bombing that has killed thousands of Palestinian civilians.

“They’re starting to lose that support,” Biden said during a Tuesday campaign event.

Biden added that Netanyahu needs to change his hardline government.

And at the same time saying they are fully behind Israel. I think its just bollocks to make them look better.

There is a discussion here about Palestinians leaving. It's thoroughly depressing and I think fraught with danger. As I said before Israel's actions are a potential threat to us all. Apparently BN has now said the Israeli Govt is not ruling out war in the West Bank. Keep him in power longer I guess screw everyone else
Might Israel’s Push Become a Shove? - Carnegie Middle East Center - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (carnegie-mec.org)

Lip service.

They make me sick.

The US said this again today. Every day they are repeating just about the same thing but wording it differently and it doesn't seem to be having much effect

We believe it is critical that Israel places a premium on the protection of human life, and for the ability of aid organisations to access civilians,"

they also said that Israel can do more to protect lives.

There was a delegation from the UN who visited Rafah border just yesterday to see the awful situation just yesterday and to think there was an air strike there today
That's what really irks me when posters say that there are safe places in Gaza that Israel has so graciously granted to the Gazans as if they should be very grateful for it when there really isn't
They are being killed everywhere

Yet more proof (as if we needed it) that there are no safe areas for the civilians in Gaza. And yet still many people will defend the IDF and say “they warned civilians to move”.

Reports of at least 20 people killed and more still in the rubble in bombing raids in Rafah [safe area] overnight

Won't do anything to improve aid distribution onwards from the Rafah crossing today - expect we'll hear from IDF_COGAT crowing about the uselessness of UNWRA though - the poor starving thirsty palestinians are just pawns

The difference is that the people of Gaza (and other parts of OPT) are effectively locked in, under siege, under a horrendous military occupation. There was a documentary on recently about fighters in Jenin. A young adult male, maybe around 20. Lives in Jenin camp, said he has never been able to see the sea due to the occupation. Can't visit family a few miles away due to the checkpoints. Knowing your house could be invaded every single night. Witnessing homes being razed to the ground, IDF coming in and shooting people, settlers attacking children. This has sweet FA to do with education. It's life under occupation.

Palestinian children should be looking to their elders who voted in a terrorist government,

<sigh>

Hamas weren’t “voted in”. The won an election sometime in the mid- noughties but then effectively took over and there hasn’t been an election in Gaza since.

Maybe the traumatised Israeli children should look to their own PM since he was quite happy for Hamas to remain in power.

@Whatamidoinhere
I had wondered as I watched a video of some of the Palestinians that had been stripped and detained by IDF while sheltering in a home by an UNWRA school and had been beaten, interrogated and numbered (in sharpie) and released. They were saying among other horrific things that the IDF had also taken women, “our mothers and sisters” and separated them and taken them no one knows where,

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2023/12/10/palestinians-speak-of-being-stripped-and-abused-by-israeli-forces-in-gaza

@Whatamidoinhere where is that from?

We've seen the pictures of men rounded up from a shelter school a few days ago. This just happened.

Although the displacement is internal, the numbers have greatly surpassed the nakba of 1948 which was the displacement of 750 thousand
Currently there are estimated 1.8million people who are internally displaced

It also doesn't help when Israeli ministers make comments like this on TV

“We are now rolling out the Gaza Nakba,” Israeli security cabinet member and Agriculture Minister Avi Dichter declared on Saturday. “Gaza Nakba 2023. That’s how it’ll end.”

The Palestinians and have real concerns about forced displacement after the Nakba of 1948.
It is generational trauma for them,
And I think that fear has resurfaced especially with the images of thousands fleeing the north with whatever they could carry waving white flags

Hundreds of thousands of Gazan still starving, thirsty, overcrowded with little or no healthcare and trapped in southern gaza - cold, heavy rain and winds marking the onset of winter blowing tents away, increasing the risk of disease and just generally adding to their misery

This was what the UN have said about them being forced out into N Sinai

''Over the weekend, the head of the UN agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA) voiced alarm over what he feared would be a mass expulsion of Palestinians into Egypt.

In an opinion piece Saturday in the Los Angeles Times, Philippe Lazzarini said “the developments we are witnessing point to attempts to move Palestinians into Egypt”.

An Israeli spokesperson responded: “There is not, never was, and never will be an Israeli plan to move the residents of Gaza to Egypt.”

Yes, Britain did. They also also imposed many restrictions on Jewish immigration to Mandatory Palestine, which, coupled with many European countries and the US imposing strict immigration quotas for Jews fleeing rising antisemitism in Europe, and later, Nazism and the Holocaust, had disastrous consequences for Jews. This in no way downplays the disastrous consequences for the Palestinians.

After Balfour declaration, Britain did facilitate immigration of European Jews to Palestine. The endogenous Jews in Palestine before 1922 formed 9% of the population. In 1935, after a lot immigration from Europe they formed 27% of the population in Palestine.

Hardly the British giving the green light to Jewish immigration- that ship is the Theodore Hertzl, detained in Haifa in 1947. The ship was halted and boarded somewhat violently by the British military and the Jewish refugees onboard transported to detention camps in Cyprus, along with 50,000 more Holocaust survivors who’d been intercepted trying to resettle in Mandatory Palestine after WW2.

And if we just have a look over only the past 15 years in Gaza. We'll see Israel bombed them in 2008 killing 1440 people. And again in 2012 killing 1400. Then in 2014 killing 2300. And again in 2021 killing 256 people. And the death toll since the past 8 weeks is 17,700 including almost 8000 children. A teenager in Gaza aged 15 years old will have lived through 5 wars. So far. What was the excuse for all these bombardments?

Well no one can deny the pain on both sides, that's true. But history did NOT start on the 7th of October.

The Jews in Europe faced many atrocities especially during world war 2. The Nazi's mercilessly killed and destroyed them. I can't imagine the trauma they went through as a community and no sane person can deny the pain they went through. However, when Britain gave the green light to the Jews to immigrate to Palestine in the 30's and 40's, and when eventually Israel was established as a state, those Jews committed the same atrocities that they themselves experienced, to Palestinians. (Side note: Palestine was under British rule from 1920 to 1948). In 1948, with the establishment of Israel, more than 13,000 Palestinians were killed, and 750,000 displaced. Between the 1940's and 1980's, there was no Hamas. Yet there was still systematic ethnic cleansing by Israel. You can have a look at the maps and see how Israel kept taking more Palestinian land over the years. I don't know how peace could be attained in the area, but I can tell you it wouldn't be through displacing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians again, or through killing babies, children which no one can deny is Israel's tactic for now, and for the past 75 years.

@NeonSoda I Don't that situation is unique to Gaza by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe how they chose to deal with if?

Look at darfur? Yemen? There are lots of countries. We have had two WW's here. My Nan lost a whole street of family in 'hellfire corner'. Pretty sure she didn't explode with murderous intent. (She wasn't keen on krauts mind you and wailing Winnie made her cry until she died at 97)

What is so different? Education? And I mean both sides are letting their children down. Wanting something better? Valuing your own life? The Chain has to be broken.

Well, I would need to look up Syria to see exactly what happened there. I feel as if I saw streams of refugees more than actual bombed areas and people running with stretchers. Surely that nice David Someone, who works for MSF and sat next to the Queen at dinner one day, had been working in Syria.

It could be argued that from the 1930s to 1945 a lot of Jewish people had their whole families destroyed along with their houses and work. Some of their kids got to safety, maybe in countries where they were not taught to hate. Some of their kids were kicked to death on the streets before they got to Auschwitz.

This, completely. It's devastating to see. Vile and very frustrating that no-one is willing to step in and stop the IDF.

Really?