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Conflict in the Middle East

Do lots of people support Hamas?

691 replies

elprup · 03/12/2023 20:33

I just read this story and it is absolutely horrific

I saw ten Hamas terrorists beat and gang-rape an Israeli woman

https://mol.im/a/12820081

Is everyone on the pro-Palestine marches in London solely supporting the innocent civilians of Palestine (as I do too)? Or are there some people on these marches supporting the actions of Hamas as well?

I want to join the marches in support of innocent adults and kids in Gaza (and I would want to march for the same reasons on any pro Israel marches too), but I do not want to endorse Hamas in any shape or form. They are absolutely vile.

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Parkingt111 · 09/12/2023 09:18

@ChickHenLittle and it doesn't help that Putin and some others must be extremely happy knowing that anything the US condemns them with now won't hold as much weight

ChickHenLittle · 09/12/2023 09:03

BabaBarrio · 09/12/2023 00:27

Biden has just put the continuing existence of the UN into question. The US veto has clearly stated that international law doesn’t apply to the US or Israel. That they are above international law.

It’s an Animal Farm moment of reckoning, the full impact of which will echo for generations.

If we are lucky, the UN will abolish the ability of any country to veto. There will be no permanent member privileges. It will have a mutiny of its own and become truly Democratic- one nation, one vote.

If we are unlucky, nations will see this as the penultimate fuck you and the world will descend into chaos and warfare because why bother to follow international law if a few are operating outside the law with impunity and zero consequence? If this happens, then climate change will be the very least of our worries.

Let's hope vetoes are abolished. Lots of headlines saying the US is now isolating itself and could be seen as complicit in war crimes since it is facilitating the Israeli government.
It's a confusing and downright awful system that both are causing international outrage and politically isolating themselves, yet they can't be stopped.

Humdingerydoo · 09/12/2023 07:37

BF1989 · 09/12/2023 05:12

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzF4tgcIkXB/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

This explains it very clearly. Please watch. Please open your eyes.

No, I'm not going to click on some random Instagram link and pretend it's educational. If you think this is all Israel's fault and nothing to do with Hamas I'd expect you to be able to back up that accusation with words as it's a pretty bold statement to make.

Perfectlystill · 09/12/2023 05:45

Lots of them support Hamas. Look at all those (perfectly normal looking) women tearing down pictures of missing Israeli children and babies.

twilightmoon3 · 09/12/2023 05:27

Noam will go to his very last breath check out Chis Hedges he is a very worthy successor told inherit the baton on intellectual truth and justice.ll

BF1989 · 09/12/2023 05:13

Humdingerydoo · 08/12/2023 23:40

How so?

Sorry, my last post was meant to be a response to this message.

HeidiInTheBigCity · 09/12/2023 01:07

Toothyfruity · 09/12/2023 00:36

Can they do that though? What's the mechanism that could get rid of the veto? Those with a veto can probably veto it.

There is - so far as I am aware - no such thing as a "formal mechanism".

There is such a thing as "realpolitik".

Realistically speaking, in a "cold, hard, realism" sort of way: there is every chance that what is happening will result in a further shift of power towards the BRICs, as so-called "Western values" being shown up for the fraud that they have, realistically speaking, always kind of been: a fig leave for hegemonic indirect imperialism.

I wish Edward Said was alive to explain this better! I wish Noam Chomsky had not turned 95 yesterday and was 20 years younger and better positioned to speak up! I miss them!

Toothyfruity · 09/12/2023 00:36

BabaBarrio · 09/12/2023 00:27

Biden has just put the continuing existence of the UN into question. The US veto has clearly stated that international law doesn’t apply to the US or Israel. That they are above international law.

It’s an Animal Farm moment of reckoning, the full impact of which will echo for generations.

If we are lucky, the UN will abolish the ability of any country to veto. There will be no permanent member privileges. It will have a mutiny of its own and become truly Democratic- one nation, one vote.

If we are unlucky, nations will see this as the penultimate fuck you and the world will descend into chaos and warfare because why bother to follow international law if a few are operating outside the law with impunity and zero consequence? If this happens, then climate change will be the very least of our worries.

Can they do that though? What's the mechanism that could get rid of the veto? Those with a veto can probably veto it.

BabaBarrio · 09/12/2023 00:27

Biden has just put the continuing existence of the UN into question. The US veto has clearly stated that international law doesn’t apply to the US or Israel. That they are above international law.

It’s an Animal Farm moment of reckoning, the full impact of which will echo for generations.

If we are lucky, the UN will abolish the ability of any country to veto. There will be no permanent member privileges. It will have a mutiny of its own and become truly Democratic- one nation, one vote.

If we are unlucky, nations will see this as the penultimate fuck you and the world will descend into chaos and warfare because why bother to follow international law if a few are operating outside the law with impunity and zero consequence? If this happens, then climate change will be the very least of our worries.

OuiOuiKitty · 09/12/2023 00:09

HeidiInTheBigCity · 08/12/2023 23:59

I find it hard to even post these days. Because what I really want to say very often is just [redacted] after all that has happened!

With every dead child, every residential neighbourhood flattened, I get angrier!

Every "administrative detainee" taken in Tulkarm, Nablus, Hebron, Jenin, ... I get angrier!

Every village on the West Bank, whose people end up displaced because of extremist settlers - protected and armed by the Israeli state - I get angrier!

Pictures of stripped almost naked, kneeling abducted civilians. Israeli accounts gloating about "we caught Hamas". No, you fucking did not, you fucking war criminals! You kidnapped civilians! You did the exact same thing when you grabbed my friend, H., and made him kneel in the exact same position for hours! When you shot in front of my feet when I could not take it anymore and decided to approach with water for him - and: when I was not deterred, you held a fucking gun to his head! Admittedly: I WAS deterred by that!

Every time you remind me of that moment, I get angrier!

When Netanyahu published "but, but, but, ... if you accuse us of war crimes, you are an antisemite", I get angrier!

I am not alone!

You are definitely not alone. I type out a lot of posts and then delete them before posting these days. I'm really angry too. A lot of people are feeling really angry and really helpless, then that anger is thrown back in your face, you are called 'unhinged' and 'over emotional'. Of course I'm fucking over emotional, 1000s of people are being killed and it could be stopped right now if only people were put before politics and money.

HeidiInTheBigCity · 08/12/2023 23:59

I find it hard to even post these days. Because what I really want to say very often is just [redacted] after all that has happened!

With every dead child, every residential neighbourhood flattened, I get angrier!

Every "administrative detainee" taken in Tulkarm, Nablus, Hebron, Jenin, ... I get angrier!

Every village on the West Bank, whose people end up displaced because of extremist settlers - protected and armed by the Israeli state - I get angrier!

Pictures of stripped almost naked, kneeling abducted civilians. Israeli accounts gloating about "we caught Hamas". No, you fucking did not, you fucking war criminals! You kidnapped civilians! You did the exact same thing when you grabbed my friend, H., and made him kneel in the exact same position for hours! When you shot in front of my feet when I could not take it anymore and decided to approach with water for him - and: when I was not deterred, you held a fucking gun to his head! Admittedly: I WAS deterred by that!

Every time you remind me of that moment, I get angrier!

When Netanyahu published "but, but, but, ... if you accuse us of war crimes, you are an antisemite", I get angrier!

I am not alone!

Humdingerydoo · 08/12/2023 23:40

BF1989 · 08/12/2023 23:02

I think they are a result of the real problem. Israel.

How so?

BF1989 · 08/12/2023 23:02

basculin · 08/12/2023 21:43

You don't think Hamas is a problem?

I think they are a result of the real problem. Israel.

basculin · 08/12/2023 22:34

basculin · 08/12/2023 21:43

You don't think Hamas is a problem?

Sorry messed up the quote, that was to @BF1989

Trulywonderful · 08/12/2023 21:46

basculin · 08/12/2023 21:43

You don't think Hamas is a problem?

I read it as they do think Hamas is the problem

Just goes to show we all interpret posts differently

basculin · 08/12/2023 21:43

backtowinter · 08/12/2023 20:13

Hamas is the problem 🤷🏻‍♀️

You don't think Hamas is a problem?

Trulywonderful · 08/12/2023 21:42

If only it was that simple

HeidiInTheBigCity · 08/12/2023 20:59

backtowinter · 08/12/2023 20:13

Hamas is the problem 🤷🏻‍♀️

The occupation is the root cause, though!

backtowinter · 08/12/2023 20:13

BF1989 · 08/12/2023 12:10

https://www.instagram.com/p/C0kkXwrtoTn/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

… and people think Hamas is the problem.

Hamas is the problem 🤷🏻‍♀️

XRAYTHIS · 08/12/2023 12:24

BF1989 · 08/12/2023 12:10

https://www.instagram.com/p/C0kkXwrtoTn/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

… and people think Hamas is the problem.

Do you not think that Hamas is a problem? Other wrongs do not make Hamas not a problem. Their aims haven't helped the ordinary Palestinian civilian at all.

Livinginanotherworld · 07/12/2023 15:36

25milesfromhome · 06/12/2023 23:33

So, any statement made by the doctor led medical division of the Israeli Health Ministry equals lies, any statement made by the Hamas led Gaza Health Ministry equals truth. You’re right, it is laughable. Also laughable- that the mention of a London based Jewish newspaper has riled you so much that you’ve chosen to make this the focus of your ire more than 24hrs after I posted it and many pages after the debate has moved on. @Totallymessed called it.

Called what ? I don’t just sit on mn for 24 hours to respond to posts immediately. I was catching up actually. And yes,we were talking about independent news reports, the Jewish Chronicle are not independent and nor would I expect them to be.

Scirocco · 07/12/2023 15:36

@Katy231 I don't for one minute consider that figure to be accurate. I'm not counting anyone.

That is the figure given by a senior person in the Israeli armed forces, in interviews with international media. If you've read my post, I've actually said in it that data gets skewed, and may indeed be reached by the IDF, for example, saying they'll class all male casualties as fighters, or anyone who tries to defend themselves. I do not think it is an accurate ratio and it certainly doesn't reflect the data and eyewitness accounts coming from Gaza.

The true horror of that 'estimate' is that this is a figure that was considered 'acceptable' and justifiable enough to trot out in interviews with major news outlets. And people aren't horrified anyway. People should be horrified by that figure - and it's horrifying to think that there are truly people out there who are ok with it, even knowing that the reality is far, far worse.

In war and humanitarian crises, the most reliable sources of estimates of casualties are independent parties such as the UN and WHO, who, as I've said, have accepted the validity of the casualty estimates of over 16,000 deaths of which over 6,000 have been children.

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