Do lots of people support Hamas?

According to the Wall Street Journal 2 days ago almost 70% of 439,000 homes and about half its buildings have been destroyed. That looks consistent the satellite images I’ve viewed in the New York Times from 12 December

@Trulywonderful Quite

I was being sarcastic

The only differences I can see is that Israel invested in defence. Whereas those running Gaza ...didn't.

No

Hamas first started firing rockets into Israel on 7th October during the pogrom

They have apart from during the ceasefire when the hostages were released pretty continuously carried on firing rockets into Israel ever since. Which is why just in the north of Israel alone 250k last time I looked civilians have had to be evacuated and can't go back to their homes.

They were also the ones that broke the last ceasefire that ended the negotiations for more hostages to be swapped for prisoners. Which started the bombing of Gaza again

The rockets fired into Israel during the pogrom was breaking a ceasefire agreement then too

So no this new development won't cause the protesters to call on Hamas too to stop firing rockets. If they wanted that then they would have been saying it all along or at least after the hostage negotiations ceasefire was broken by Hamas

( I think you were perhaps being sarcastic but I just wanted to add some detail incase you weren't or for anyone that doesn't know these things)

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say - are you suggesting that a small sample size of people who will of course have been predominantly supporting or complying with the views of an extremist group is indicative of the views of an entire population? That's not robust statistical analysis.

If an organisation has taken prisoners or kidnapped hostages, it would make no sense for them to place those people in facilities or locations where the residents or people encountered don't share that organisation's views. So, the people around those hostages or prisoners would most likely be selected from a skewed sample - people who have already demonstrated support for or compliance with that organisation to a level that indicates they could be 'trusted' to act in ways desired by the organisation.

The people responsible for any part of kidnapping, imprisoning and mistreating prisoners and hostages should be held to account. What they have done is reprehensible. I've read some of the eyewitness accounts of hostages who were held in Gaza and of people imprisoned by the Israeli government. I've worked with survivors of torture. There should, in my opinion, be robust investigations and trials where possible to bring as many of the perpetrators to justice as can be achieved.

But just as we can't use skewed samples to make allegations that all Israelis would support and be complicit in the actions of the IDF, extremist 'settlers', prison staff, etc, we can't use similarly skewed samples to make allegations that all Palestinians or all people in Gaza support Hamas.

That won't happen

I got the number of rockets wrong. Apologies but hamas is still firing into Israel and not looking like it wants a ceasefire

Indeed, so hamas 'only' fired 27 rockets into Israel, but 'they want a ceasefire '. Would a ceasefire be only for Israel and they keep firing 'only' x number of rockets.

I wonder if we'll have ceasefire marches calling for an end to Hamas now.

I don't know the exact figures as it hasn't been updated in awhile but from what I read previously it was 70% of the north which had the most severe bombing but 20% overall in the whole of Gaza. However don't quote me on that as I can't remember the source. If I find it then il post it

And how was stoma not doing the same to your assertion?

@noblegiraffe you don't seem to be able to read.

According to this article it was 27, not hundreds. And no I do not condone any rocket attack.

Correcting an assertion that it was hundreds.

You appeared to be saying it was "just 27 rockets" so I'm not sure you're any better here.

"just" a fifth

@stomachameleon either way, it's hardly a figure to be proud of is it.

www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/nearly-fifth-gazas-buildings-destroyed-or-damaged-un-estimate-2023-12-12/

In comparison, Israeli bombardment has now destroyed over 70% of Gaza homes.

Experts say the besieged strip is unrecognisable and its bombing is the most destructive in modern history.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/31/israeli-bombardment-destroyed-over-70-of-gaza-homes-media-office#:~:text=Analysing%20satellite%20imagery%2C%20the%20report,that%20they%20cannot%20be%20repaired.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-stroke-of-midnight-hamas-attacks-israel-with-heavy-new-year-rocket-barrage/

According to this article it was 27, not hundreds. And no I do not condone any rocket attack.

@Scirocco

surrounded by Hamas supporters or people coerced into collaboration,

Is it so difficult to accept? Even though we have the evidence from eye witnesses and hostages that normal people were involving in the butchery and raping of Jews and other nationalities.

That they are complicit? Not hard to imagine after years of rule is it?

Unwra teacher for example? Surely your moral code would tell you not to hold someone against their will? Someone probably terrified?

Condemning hamas 'a bit tired at this point!' Well since they fired hundreds of rockets into Israel overnight perhaps they should still be condemned. All very well shouting ceasefire now whilst hamas continues with the rockets.

How does it show that Hamas is a big part of the civilian population? What it shows is that Hamas had access to some civilian homes and healthcare, which would not be unexpected, given that people fighting for Hamas probably have families and friends. If they were looking for places to keep hostages, it wouldn't make sense to take them to locations where the people there don't support Hamas. So, people taken hostage have probably been surrounded by Hamas supporters or people coerced into collaboration, but that doesn't mean that we can take a sample of people they encountered and extrapolate that to the wider population.

Hamas are unlikely to just walk away from power, and a position of no ceasefire while they are in power is unlikely to lead to anything other than a continuation of the genocide of the Palestinians. There needs to be justice, but if we allow justice to be overtaken by wrath, that just leaves us all with this cycle of hatred and death. Peace is hard to achieve and often requires difficult decisions - perhaps negotiating the disarmament and exit from power of Hamas could be part of ceasefire talks, rather than the current approach of flattening Gaza and allowing settler occupation and violence in the West Bank.

Thank heavens for that, sorry for pointing it out.

Not ! Sorry autocorrect changed to but it should say I would NOT

Am I reading this correctly? “ if you were forced to hold hostages at your house you would treat them badly or rape them” ? Hoping I’ve read this wrong.

Exactly this , plus released hostages have talked about being held in civilian homes , being treated by doctors etc . So clearly Hamas is a big part if the population . Let’s be honest here , if I was forced to held hostages at my house I would but treat them badly or rape them , if I was a doctor I would not hurt them during treatment on purpose . No ceasefire while Hamas is in power .