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Conflict in the Middle East

IDF shot a 9 year old boy

360 replies

ThickPinkSocks · 29/11/2023 20:18

Why is this not in the mainstream news? I thought there was a ceasefire!

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Chaitales · 01/12/2023 15:53

@Katharineblum thank you
I can think that children/babies/women etc being killed in a war is tragic and ideally should not happen, that Jews should have their own state to remain safe after millennia of persecution and that Palestinians are entitled to a state of their own too, with a democratically elected government free from religious intolerance and interference by their big neighbour.

Most of us calling for ceasefire, being horrified at indiscriminate bombing in Gaza and shooting in WB and settler colonialism have been saying this for weeks. Noone is denying the need for a Jewish state or advocating ANY killing, while advocating for Palestinians to be able to live freely and without threat or control.

Katharineblum · 01/12/2023 15:43

@Chaitales ah ok. I’ll change my viewpoint. You need to accept that people are allowed to have different opinions and funnily enough are entitled to express them. Unlike in Gaza or Iran we aren’t subject to the morality police. We can disagree. We can also agree on bits and disagree on others. I can think that children/babies/women etc being killed in a war is tragic and ideally should not happen, that Jews should have their own state to remain safe after millennia of persecution and that Palestinians are entitled to a state of their own too, with a democratically elected government free from religious intolerance and interference by their big neighbour. I can do all that without being an apologist for genocide, that ok ?

Chaitales · 01/12/2023 14:52

beigecartoon · 01/12/2023 14:29

https://theconversation.com/the-harvard-of-anti-terrorism-how-israels-military-industrial-complex-feeds-the-global-arms-trade-204758

In the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks and the wave of anxiety they engendered, demand for Israeli hardware and know-how exploded. Israel is now one of the world’s top-ten weapons dealing nations. Its defence enterprises market everything from small arms to killer drones, from spyware to surface-to-air missiles. If it flies, watches, listens or goes bang, Israeli companies make and will sell it to (just about) anybody.

The Israeli economy, one critic noted, has “abandoned oranges for hand grenades”. Perhaps. But, as Loewenstein notes, everybody wants hand grenades nowadays.

Loewenstein’s analysis of Israeli arms dealing offers a sobering roll-call of the past half-century’s standout despots and pariah nations, ranging from apartheid-era South Africa to Saudi Arabia’s bonesaw authoritarians. Their clients have included, among others, Suharto-era Indonesia, Ceausescu’s Romania, Pinochet’s Chile, the Shah’s Iran, the Duvaliers’ – père et fils – Haiti, Stroessner’s Paraguay, and Rios Montt’s genocidal tyranny in Guatemala, where Israeli-made Galil rifles were used to massacre indigenous communities.

There will probably be someone on here coming and saying how all those countries and their populations deserved it.

Chaitales · 01/12/2023 14:45

beigecartoon · 01/12/2023 14:30

@Katharineblum hate to burst your bubble there. Have a read of the above.

Thank you for sharing

beigecartoon · 01/12/2023 14:30

@Katharineblum hate to burst your bubble there. Have a read of the above.

beigecartoon · 01/12/2023 14:29

https://theconversation.com/the-harvard-of-anti-terrorism-how-israels-military-industrial-complex-feeds-the-global-arms-trade-204758

In the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks and the wave of anxiety they engendered, demand for Israeli hardware and know-how exploded. Israel is now one of the world’s top-ten weapons dealing nations. Its defence enterprises market everything from small arms to killer drones, from spyware to surface-to-air missiles. If it flies, watches, listens or goes bang, Israeli companies make and will sell it to (just about) anybody.

The Israeli economy, one critic noted, has “abandoned oranges for hand grenades”. Perhaps. But, as Loewenstein notes, everybody wants hand grenades nowadays.

Loewenstein’s analysis of Israeli arms dealing offers a sobering roll-call of the past half-century’s standout despots and pariah nations, ranging from apartheid-era South Africa to Saudi Arabia’s bonesaw authoritarians. Their clients have included, among others, Suharto-era Indonesia, Ceausescu’s Romania, Pinochet’s Chile, the Shah’s Iran, the Duvaliers’ – père et fils – Haiti, Stroessner’s Paraguay, and Rios Montt’s genocidal tyranny in Guatemala, where Israeli-made Galil rifles were used to massacre indigenous communities.

The Harvard of anti-terrorism: how Israel's military-industrial complex feeds the global arms trade

Tried and tested in the field, Israeli weapons and surveillance technology are being packaged and sold for export.

https://theconversation.com/the-harvard-of-anti-terrorism-how-israels-military-industrial-complex-feeds-the-global-arms-trade-204758

Chaitales · 01/12/2023 14:25

True colors - did you think you were appearing smart by finding a "hidden agenda"? I never hid the truth and if you bother to research beyond your own news sources you will find plenty of evidence backing Israels standing as an violent state. Israel is well documented to be built on oppression and terror in itself and for supplying arms around the world, having hand in international conflict, bombing bases and contributing to terror. So come off it.

Katharineblum · 01/12/2023 14:15

See there you show your true colours ‘a violent terrorist state’.

If we are talking about violence I’ve not seen Israel getting involved in atrocities abroad, funding terrorist groups all over the world, killing thousands of innocent people of all religions and colours. Hamas is funded by both Iran which itself is an authoritarian theocratic terrorist state quite happy to murder its own innocent people protesting about the insane degree of state control there and by Russia, a corrupt terrorist state, equally happy to murder opponents and invade sovereign states. All three are great examples of leadership who revel in using their own people as human shields and do not give a shiny shit about the children and babies killed. Yes the Palestinian people are stuck in the middle, I don’t know what the answer is, but letting Hamas off is insane.

Chaitales · 01/12/2023 13:56

I honestly can't fathom how people can't see that Israel is the violent terrorist state that has inflicted 75 years of inhumanity on Palestinians

Chaitales · 01/12/2023 13:52

beigecartoon · 01/12/2023 13:42

"Gazan civilians would also have a much better life without being ruled by a terrorist organisation"

The irony of this statement bearing in mind how Israel treats Gaza, not to mention Palestinians as a whole. LOL.

Honestly, the irony is unbelievable

beigecartoon · 01/12/2023 13:42

"Gazan civilians would also have a much better life without being ruled by a terrorist organisation"

The irony of this statement bearing in mind how Israel treats Gaza, not to mention Palestinians as a whole. LOL.

Dulra · 01/12/2023 13:31

miniegg3 · 01/12/2023 12:26

Not really without looking into every case individually.

Does that mean it's OK to slaughter Israeli children and babies?

I'm in no way saying the IDF have done no wrong. They denied using white phosphorus when I have seen it myself on live stream. But this all boils down to getting rid of hamas. Gazan civilians would also have a much better life without being ruled by a terrorist organisation

Gazan civilians would also have a much better life without being ruled by a terrorist organisation

Let's hope Israel leave enough of them alive to enjoy that better life you suggest. It is likely though that those that are still alive after all this will be so deeply traumatised and trying to survive without homes, hospitals, food, supplies, water, power and so on to have any sort of life never mind a much better one
How patronising and deluded to even suggest Israel are Gazans saviours.

Chaitales · 01/12/2023 13:07

OuiOuiKitty · 01/12/2023 12:50

My issue is that this thread is nothing to do with Gaza and what life in Gaza is about. Posters like you are coming here and you don't even know the difference between the West Bank and Gaza but you want to talk about 'both sides'? It has nothing to do with Hamas. Muddying a thread about a 9 year old child being shot in the back of the head as he runs away with talk of child soldiers, talk of Gaza, talk of Hamas, murdering gay people, just why? It has nothing to so with this 9 year old child. The thread title is clear.

If I went onto the thread about the 9 month old baby hostage and started talking about Israeli children being indoctrinated against Palestinians to see them as less than and primitive, talking about Israeli children being primed to be future IDF killers, being future settlers and saying that something has to be done to stop them etc I would get a lot worse than anyone on this thread has been given. Do you not see that it is just as bad for a thread about the murder of a Palestinian child to be taken over with talk of child soldiers and future terrorists? There are far more IDF killers, far more Israeli settlers than they are Palestinian terrorists so if you feel that your derailing and the derailing of others is appropriate do you think it would be appropriate for me to wade into the thread about the 9 month old baby and do the same thing?

Hear hear

beigecartoon · 01/12/2023 13:06

My only guess is they think it's fair game to do it, as the boy is a Palestinian.

beigecartoon · 01/12/2023 13:04

@OuiOuiKitty hear hear, thank you. It's like certain posters have their fingers in their ears. Read the room people!

OuiOuiKitty · 01/12/2023 12:50

Katharineblum · 01/12/2023 12:06

You lot carry on in your echo chamber where no balance is allowed. You’ll change no minds, in fact you’re just talking to yourselves. Most of us can see both sides, it’s perfectly acceptable to want Israeli citizens to be able to live in peace and not be randomly murdered by fundamentalists and mourn the death of innocent Palestinian children, women, old people etc who have essentially been taken hostage by their own leaders. Life in Gaza, ruled by religious extremists who are happy to murder gay and trans folk, anybody who doesn’t agree with their religious fervour isn’t good at the best of times. How do you intend to get rid of these criminals?
@MissyB1 surprised to see you agreeing with a chant that is recognised as being genuinely anti semitic. Generally agreed with you on political threads.

My issue is that this thread is nothing to do with Gaza and what life in Gaza is about. Posters like you are coming here and you don't even know the difference between the West Bank and Gaza but you want to talk about 'both sides'? It has nothing to do with Hamas. Muddying a thread about a 9 year old child being shot in the back of the head as he runs away with talk of child soldiers, talk of Gaza, talk of Hamas, murdering gay people, just why? It has nothing to so with this 9 year old child. The thread title is clear.

If I went onto the thread about the 9 month old baby hostage and started talking about Israeli children being indoctrinated against Palestinians to see them as less than and primitive, talking about Israeli children being primed to be future IDF killers, being future settlers and saying that something has to be done to stop them etc I would get a lot worse than anyone on this thread has been given. Do you not see that it is just as bad for a thread about the murder of a Palestinian child to be taken over with talk of child soldiers and future terrorists? There are far more IDF killers, far more Israeli settlers than they are Palestinian terrorists so if you feel that your derailing and the derailing of others is appropriate do you think it would be appropriate for me to wade into the thread about the 9 month old baby and do the same thing?

ChickHenLittle · 01/12/2023 12:30

From BBC News -

As Basel's body was prepared for burial in the crowded hospital morgue, a relative watched as the teenager was wrapped in the green flag of Hamas. It wasn't what Basel would have wanted, he told the BBC.
"He's innocent, not from the militias," he said, teetering between anger and grief. "He's perfect in school, a good boy, kind."
The hospital director, Dr Wissam Bakr, said the boys' wounds - from shots to the head and chest - showed that they were intentionally killed.
"There's no safe place in Jenin now," he said.

Looks like the West Bank is next to be targeted. 😪

twilightmoon3 · 01/12/2023 12:30

Utterly horrific, Human Rights Watch has verified the reports about the decomposed babies in the Gaza hospital after staff were forced to flee. The depravity that has been unleashed on both sides is simply stunning. The problem is that our government supports one and rightly condemns the other.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/01/birth-and-death-intertwined-gaza-strip

A Palestinian doctor in a hospital in Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip prepares a premature baby to be transferred to Egypt to receive proper medical care, November 20, 2023. 

Birth and Death Intertwined in Gaza Strip

On November 9, Israeli airstrikes hit Al-Nasr Medical Center in Gaza City, cutting off the neonatal intensive care unit’s oxygen supply. The attack forced staff to evacuate the next day, leaving babies that could not be transported alone in intensive c...

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/01/birth-and-death-intertwined-gaza-strip

beigecartoon · 01/12/2023 12:28

Preventing millions of innocents from having food, aid, shelter, safety, water is not "getting rid of Hamas". It is cruelty of the highest degree.

miniegg3 · 01/12/2023 12:26

Chaitales · 01/12/2023 12:19

Can you (maybe on a separate thread not derailing about this 9 year old child) explore why, prior to Hamas, or in WB where there is no Hamas, children are randomly killed and/or imprisoned without trial?

Not really without looking into every case individually.

Does that mean it's OK to slaughter Israeli children and babies?

I'm in no way saying the IDF have done no wrong. They denied using white phosphorus when I have seen it myself on live stream. But this all boils down to getting rid of hamas. Gazan civilians would also have a much better life without being ruled by a terrorist organisation

ChickHenLittle · 01/12/2023 12:26

A poster on another thread outright said they cared more about Israeli and Jewish children and was roundly defended, with posters objecting being told it was a natural and understandable point of view.

There are echo chambers, but I don't think this thread is one. Most are objecting to any one group of people being targeted.

beigecartoon · 01/12/2023 12:21

Katharineblum · 01/12/2023 12:06

You lot carry on in your echo chamber where no balance is allowed. You’ll change no minds, in fact you’re just talking to yourselves. Most of us can see both sides, it’s perfectly acceptable to want Israeli citizens to be able to live in peace and not be randomly murdered by fundamentalists and mourn the death of innocent Palestinian children, women, old people etc who have essentially been taken hostage by their own leaders. Life in Gaza, ruled by religious extremists who are happy to murder gay and trans folk, anybody who doesn’t agree with their religious fervour isn’t good at the best of times. How do you intend to get rid of these criminals?
@MissyB1 surprised to see you agreeing with a chant that is recognised as being genuinely anti semitic. Generally agreed with you on political threads.

I think this kind of posting is a often couched attempt at dividing. Nobody says it's ok for Israelis to be murdered. People support innocent civilians on both sides. Even the most fervent MN Palestine supporters want peace for Israelis and Palestinians. Yet many are very happy to spread this false narrative that we all want Israelis to die or love Hamas. Divisive.

On this thread in particular, its frequently the pro-Israeli posters ones stoking division, hatred, belittling and spreading their nasty racist tropes and pulling up these assertions of "echo chambers" yet simultaneously failing to acknowledge the plight of the Palestinians in the face of decades of oppression by ISRAELI GOVT (and more recently Hamas, agreed). Read back through the thread, you'll get an idea of who is spreading the divisive diatribe. Many on here even celebrating and belittling the death of a nine year old.

Chaitales · 01/12/2023 12:19

miniegg3 · 01/12/2023 12:15

Exactly, it's ludicrous. Israeli children where murdered in their own beds or cowering in bomb shelters, yet no-one seems to care about that 🤷‍♀️ like IDF just started this for no reason

Can you (maybe on a separate thread not derailing about this 9 year old child) explore why, prior to Hamas, or in WB where there is no Hamas, children are randomly killed and/or imprisoned without trial?

miniegg3 · 01/12/2023 12:15

Katharineblum · 01/12/2023 12:06

You lot carry on in your echo chamber where no balance is allowed. You’ll change no minds, in fact you’re just talking to yourselves. Most of us can see both sides, it’s perfectly acceptable to want Israeli citizens to be able to live in peace and not be randomly murdered by fundamentalists and mourn the death of innocent Palestinian children, women, old people etc who have essentially been taken hostage by their own leaders. Life in Gaza, ruled by religious extremists who are happy to murder gay and trans folk, anybody who doesn’t agree with their religious fervour isn’t good at the best of times. How do you intend to get rid of these criminals?
@MissyB1 surprised to see you agreeing with a chant that is recognised as being genuinely anti semitic. Generally agreed with you on political threads.

Exactly, it's ludicrous. Israeli children where murdered in their own beds or cowering in bomb shelters, yet no-one seems to care about that 🤷‍♀️ like IDF just started this for no reason

miniegg3 · 01/12/2023 12:11

Dulra · 01/12/2023 10:09

Your post did not say Hamas, it stated - Ceasefire is over now anyway so they can get back to eliminating the scumbags - as IDF pounds gaza with more rocket fire, people can be forgiven for thinking the scumbags you were referring to were the people of Gaza, maybe be more specific next time if you don't want to be called out or reported for your posts

Why on earth would I be talking about civilians??
The whole conversation was about hamas