IDF shot a 9 year old boy

No, they want peace on their land eh? 🙄

@Chaitales and @ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow Thank you, standing for long periods of time wouldn't be doable, especially now winter and this bitter cold has suddenly appeared! An actual march without standing around, maybe, but due to work I'd have my children and would have to be stopping constant scape attempts (all under school age)!

@ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow It may not be near you, and it's short notice, but there is this: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/4953492-together-for-humanity
It's a good idea, I hope it is very well attended.

Sorry to hear. No I haven't attended any Hamas protests but would if there were any

There is SO MUCH documented terror by Israel just in 2022 and 2023 alone.

Hope you feel better soon!

@ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow do you condemn Israel's behaviour towards Palestine prior to October 7th? Do you condemn the racism, land stealing, torture, rape, unlawful imprisonment, oppression of human rights, and killing of so many innocent Palestinians by IDF in the preceding decades? Or are you only prepared to recognise the actions of one side.

No, as I've said before, health reasons prevent me attending protests these days. I haven't been to any, against anything at all, in many years.
Which ones have you attended?

It is very difficult for sure. I am devastated about all the loss of life but don't see that Israel has any other choice as Hamas is committed to its destruction?

@ohforheavenssakedearcomeonnow

How would that assure Hamas would surrender and release hostages?

But on the hostages, Israeli is bombing the tunnels Hamas use, they want them destroyed but the hostages are also in them, how many do you think are still alive? especially as there are also huge shortages of food.

The 2 main aims of Israel are at odds with each other but as we can see, the destruction of Hamas is more important.

Palestinians protesting against Hamas? well, when this is over, the protestors would not be safe from reprisals, possibly during the bombings.

You are being rather unrealistic.

Dr Rangan Chatterjee has a good interview with Johann Hari on his podcast about this if anyone interested

If people protest against Hamas , it may avoid the following:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12817223/israel-prepares-year-war-gaza-ceasefire-ends.html

Have you protested against Hamas - assuming you are not in Gaza?

I think, given the balance of posts on this board, more posters on MN appear to be calling for a ceasefire than attempting to justify Israel's war crimes and collective punishment. It does give me hope.

Agree. I wonder if many even know what "agree with IDF", "stand with Israel" mean in a deep way beyond a trite headline.

I wonder if there has been any effort for even a broader reading of books, watching news, having conversations with people outside their circle, in an effort to gain understanding of both sides of the story?

Or is it easy to dismiss everyone else as anti semitic, pro terror, "baying crowds", and thus close your eyes with ease and without guilt?

Are we all just victims of a psychological playbook that drives us through fear of the other - thus keeping governments and status quo in power - are most campaigns driven by fear rather than hope? There has been a lot written about how governments and systems work in suppressing the minds of people in order to keep them uninformed about injustices in society - Johann Hari (british Swiss author)'s books such as Stolen Focus/ Lost Connections talk a lot about how our attention is deliberately taken away in society and kept busy in mediocre pursuits and hatred for the other so we arent able to notice and stand up against injustices. Eg blaming immigrants for mess of NHS, vs governments for underfunding and quietly selling off NHS is an example.

I'm genuinely curious.

While trying to survive a humanitarian crisis and dodge the airstrikes? Never mind Hamas likely not reacting well to it? With all that in mind, would I be brave enough to tell my armed oppressors that I was against them? While trying not to starve or be hit by Israeli airstrikes? No, I wouldn't.

The people here on MN know the truth.

@Chaitales thank you for sharing. It is interesting to hear from your first hand experience of how these lies and cognitive dissonance are so deeply embedded.

At least much of the world is waking up to this, in a major way now.

What scares me are the people here on MN all too happy to repeat the lies and "stand with IDF" with the warped assertion that Israel is the sole victim and everything going on is justified. Often the same posters, regurgitating the DARVO stance, bot style.

The people of Gaza could protest in the streets against Hamas.

Agree. If you look at interviews of Jewish people against zionism, the first thing most say is how they grew up brainwashed into believing Israel was a land without a people, that it was created in peace, and Arabs came and disturbed their peace and Israel is only defending itself when it acts against them. It was only when people started doing their own research or saw firsthand how Palestinians were treated did they start exploring the truth. Even as long term residents, people are chilling in Tel Aviv completely unaware of what is happening to local populations just a few miles away.

As I've mentioned a few times here, I've worked for a long time in interfaith - specifically Jewish muslim women - and there is an absolute silencing of even using the word Palestine. It's like as if saying Palestine will make us all melt away like the wicked witch in wizard of Oz. Total failure to even use the word, to be able to discuss the issue, has resulted in complete lack of knowledge or information on what's actually happening historically and in the present. It's like people feel that if they knew what was happening, they would have to seriously challenge their status quo and comfort zone, so easier to just not know.

...but its not proportional.

What is happening is the ordinary Palestinians have little or no say in a Hamas surrender or hostage release, so Israel is just punishing everyone and that punishment is death, maiming and as we go into winter & little aid, the Palestinians with freeze/starve to death but according to the Israelis, thats ok as the means justifies the end.

Of course they would and I would like them to be free of the airstrikes which will stop when Hamas release the hostages and surrender.

@Chaitales @ChickHenLittle what we are seeing are the results of one of the biggest cases of prolonged mass brainwashing and indoctrination into a mass DARVO campaign. Tell a lie often enough... and all that.

No I don't believe it is all black and white, nor that all Palestinians are innocent. But they had their land forcibly taken, their people ethnically cleansed, oppressed for years and yet we still are told they are the sole aggressors.

It really is surprising, along with double standards. I won't put any lives above others (assuming we're talking about civilians and not those killing innocents), but I've seen so many comments in the media and in posts that either very strongly hint at, or simply outright say that Palestinian lives are worth less. I can't comprehend that mindset at all, it's sad in this day and age that people can be valued more due to being born in a certain place. Where you're born isn't an achievement, and doesn't make you better or worse than anyone else.

Still wondering how Hamas committed genocide but the IDF haven't?

Palestinians would also like to be free from constant airstrikes and their land getting smaller and smaller as time goes on.