To wonder how people justify the west Bank settlements

The majority of my friends and family in the main part of Israel are against the settlements and very left wing. But they are not religious. It is often tied into religious beliefs and fear, which unfortunately comes across as arrogance and superiority.

@Thisusernamenotavailable it comes across as crazy.

When people talk about their illegal occupation being the word of god, they just lose any chance of being taken seriously.

@Stomacharmeleon Thank you for the info, that's really interesting. There's quite a few parties there that are pro 2 state.

@Stomacharmeleon thank you

www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-opposition-leader-says-time-has-come-replace-netanyahu-2023-11-16/

@Stomacharmeleon if Netanyahu goes do you know who is favoured to take over? And from which party
Obviously you can't know for sure but generally which ones have more public support
And will support a two state solution

@stormy4319trevor also wasn't the vote low on the Palestinian side. Would be academic then?

@stormy4319trevor I am not sure about shares of votes but there are various parties that do (or have wavering commitment to it)

Yesh Atid (although they also want a United Jerusalem)

Blue and White (although they are settler fans and also support the IDF in the West Bank)

Metertz (anti occupation pro human rights)

Maki/ haddish (communist- favour two state solution)

Balad (anti Zionist and two state solution. Want Palestine in West Bank and Gaza

Ta' al and Ra'am- two state solution.

Labour (mapai) - responsible for Oslo accords. Two state solution.

I may have missed some out. They are odd bits I know and I might be wrong

@Backbutnotready Yes, I'd like to know which political parties in Israel support a 2 state solution, and what was their share of the vote in 2022. Hope that's not too off topic, and maybe I'll check myself later if nobody has that information available.

WTF? How am I derailing the thread. I was participating in the discussion and there was no need for your aggressive answer.

@Gwenhwyfar I've already explained myself

Please don't de-rail this thread

Thank you

"You need only look at places like Germany (far-right AfD is the 2nd strongest), France (LePen was almost president), Switzerland with their "people's party", Hungary (far right actually in power), Italy (look at Meloni), and - most recently - the Netherlands."

Sorry, cross posted with you.

newer news are indicating it was part of their family who killed her
https://www.timesofisrael.com/pregnant-woman-stabbed-to-death-in-front-of-her-kids-in-lod-unborn-baby-also-dies/amp/

"I understand an issue with that particular 1948 agreement @feralunderclassis that a lot of the Palestinians didn’t have any proof they owned the land as they often hadn’t purchased it formally [sic] to avoid paying ottoman/British taxes (from wiki: Palestinians in practice had often avoided registering their property under the Ottomans, preferring their local collective ownership system (musha'a), thus evading Ottoman taxes and army drafts.[9). So when the Jordanians invaded it they took it for state land, and then gave it back to Israel as same."

Yes, it's not as simple as just not having deeds I think.

"In Europe it generally doesn't work that way in-as-much-as more extreme parties only get a small portion of the vote so aren't in a position to lead/form a coalition"

What about Italy and the Netherlands? That's just western Europe.
This is not the fault of PR of course, it's the fault of people who vote for the extreme right.

And do we expect any form of judicial punishment? Tragically not 💔

@Jeezypeepers The occupation and annexation by Jordan was not internationally recognised Annexation is usually seen as an aggressive and illegal act. So nothing belonged to Jordan legally, and nothing was theirs to give away legally. WB was allocated in the UN partition plan as part of a future Palestinian state. Israel was required to withdraw to 1948 Armistice lines after the 1967 war. They did not. As for claims that land belonged to Jewish people before 1948 and therefore they can claim it back now - are the claims independently verified and is it usual to give land back when it's been lived on by other people for generations?

In the LT programme (sorry can't even remember if this is the same thread 😅) a settler said under Israeli law that if land was uninhabited for 3 years, then it belongs to Israel. That is a law made up by Israel, that is not accepted under international law. As I said, the illegal occupation of the West Bank is acknowledged by every nation state in the world. A lot of Israelis even say it too, even Ben Gvir acknowledged it when pressed.

There’s a poster here who’s a very knowledgable Middle Eastern historian and I’m sure she’s explained the reasons people feel justified to do this on previous threads, I’m hoping she’ll see this thread and come contribute. @lemonyticket

I understand an issue with that particular 1948 agreement @feralunderclass is that a lot of the Palestinians didn’t have any proof they owned the land as they often hadn’t purchased it formally to avoid paying ottoman/British taxes (from wiki: Palestinians in practice had often avoided registering their property under the Ottomans, preferring their local collective ownership system (musha'a), thus evading Ottoman taxes and army drafts.[9). So when the Jordanians invaded it they took it for state land, and then gave it back to Israel as same.

I’m certainly not a legal expert in that area, but I know some settlers and this is how it’s been explained to me. I really don’t agree! But it doesn’t appear to be a religious/God given thing for all of them, many seem they have (or believe to have) a legitimate claim to the land. And some definitely do actually own it.

I too will be interested in this. My understanding from a legal perspective is that in 1948 when Israel was created individual land belonging to Palestinians was legally supposed to stay this way according to international law. Israel did not honour this, and those who ideologically believe that the land of Judea and Samaria (West Bank) is for Jewish people only believe that God's law transcends that of any other law, so it is fair game for them, or as Ben Gvir said "it will be ours by hook or by crook".
America, who uphold Israel even say that the settlements need to be dismantled and the land handed back. It is considered Occupied Palestinian Territory by every state in the world.

@evelynevelyn will try and compile some for you later; I’m just mooching around online before the start of a meeting at half 11 🙈. I know some of the programmes previous posters have already talked about mention the absentee Jewish landlords/owners; the one about the American orthodox guy moving in as a tenant and basically saying ‘if it’s not me kicking you out it’ll be someone else’ is due to the land being owned by a jewish landlord and so the Palestinians who live there not actually having any legal recourse over it.

Again I don’t support this; it’s awful for the people who live there being kicked out their houses in what is definitely a violent and horrible way, it’s really unacceptable and there needs to be better mediation and ideally a two state solution. But in some of the areas the reasons Jews feel they have a claim to the land is because it’s either owned directly by them; or was transferred from Jordan to Israel in 1968 (it was ruled by them since 1949 and then Palestinians in West Bank still had Jordanian citizenship till 1988). So their argument is that the land is legally/officially/whatever they want to call it Israel’s, as that’s who Jordan transferred it to. Not Palestine.

It’s shitty, but the OP was asking how it could be justified and from what I understand this is (some) Israelis justification for taking over bits of the area even if Palestinians currently live in it.

There is absolutely no justification and the people who support the settlers will just shout Hamas at you.

@OneOffQuestions yes I think there were also massive protests all this year in opposition to the government’s attempt to change judicial law in part to make way for legalising the settlements (this is my understanding) along with authoritarian rule. A large number of Israelis are in opposition to the settlements and consider them at least part to blame for the instability.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-64929563