Just sick

How? Who will lead that coup? As I understand it, the last ‘election’ was not very legal and Hamas victory was questionable at best. The other leading armies are various terrorist groups. This, coupled with the UN stated occupation of Gaza and the ongoing victimisation faced by Gazans from IDF, who do you think they can summon to lead this coup?

They knocked 200 off nearly 2 weeks ago, not today.

Today's total ( from Haaretz) is below.

You won't even acknowledge what Palestinian people face. And of course you don't think that there is any context to this because you won't even acknowledge what Palestinian people face?

I thought that you were talking about motivation, you made it sound like they killed them just because they are racist but what you are saying is that they killed them because they knew the Israeli government would react in a way to Israeli jews being killed that they wouldn't react to Israelis of any other creed being killed?

Are you talking about someone else? I have never said I think the violence the Palestinian people face is acceptable. I do object to posters here implying the violence meted on Israelis is, because of ‘context’, and ‘this started before October 7th’’.

Did Hamas do it as a racist attack against Jews or did they do it to goad Israel? You seem to be switching around here?
Completely lost as to why you think a racist attack on Israeli Jews is NOT goading the Israeli government?!?!

A coup

I also hope Jewish Israelis do the right thing and overthrow their own bastard right wing fascist government
that continues to brutalise, murder, rape and kill Palestinian women and children, and lead to deeply entrenched hatred with subsequent terrorist atrocities in the name of resistance fighters.

I’ve also seen this said a lot. How do you think civilians over throw a terroirs group in a country, or state even, they are not in charge of?

is it not right to recognise that people being oppressed for long enough will likely strike back. That is not to excuse the 7/10 attacks but rather to understand it. We have seen the west take this attitude so often in recent times and it’s naïve and stupid. You cannot kill an ideology through fear and punishment alone.

What do current supporters believe has been the impact of Israel’s occupation on Gaza? And how do we achieve a 2 state solution without acknowledging the wrong doing on both sides?

To say that IDF has not terrorised Palestinians is disingenuous, imo. The reports from independent agencies are horrifying and it’s clear there are many people in that camp that do not want Palestine to exist.

Innocent people are suffering in this mess.

I'm not calling you a terrorist sympathiser so don't scoop so low.

Hamas are to blame, why people are so ignorant and blinkered is astounding. I hope Palestinians overthrow the bastards who have shown the don't give a crap about them to start this war.

I'm literally just throwing what you are saying back at you. I have repeatedly said that I don't think any violence is justifiable. If you think it is acceptable from one side then I don't see how anyone can think it is not acceptable from the other. Do you think that all Israelis brutalise and murder Palestinians and that is why you took my post to mean Israeli civilians brought it on themselves rather than the Israeli government doing the goading just like you accused Hamas of doing? I am not pretending to know why Hamas did anything, that was you that said that you knew why they did it. It was you who stated that it was to goad, all I am asking is why is it goading to you when one side does it but not the other(but of course you won't admit that Israel brutalise Palestinians).

I'm not sure what you think I am refusing to acknowledge? That Hamas are a terrorist organisation? I mentioned that on this very thread earlier(if not this one, then another this evening). Did Hamas do it as a racist attack against Jews or did they do it to goad Israel? You seem to be switching around here?

The very fact that you won't even acknowledge what Israel(the government not civilians in case you are confused) put Palestinians through day after day, year after year says a lot about how you view Palestinians and their suffering in comparison to how you view Israelis and theirs.

Firstly, it’s just not true that no one shrugged their shoulders at the atrocities. Many, many people celebrated them. That may be inconvenient for you, but it’s painfully true.

If you read the context and my post again, you will see . I was not giving those examples to ‘justify’ anything.

What I am is disgusted by people saying ‘ it’s evil propaganda to say babies were beheaded’ The mentality of this is appalling. And yes, to a poster clearly saying ‘ well at least this didn’t happen, so Hamas are not as bad as evil Israelis have told us’ I do want to point out that Hamas are. And I do want to help bear witness when other people are trying to pretend this atrocity was not as bad as evil propagandizing Israelis are telling you. Because it was. And it’s kinda a moral duty to bear witness against those who are trying to minimize a racist atrocity.

let me give you an analogy. If someone said ‘Well, the Nazis’ never carried out this particular experiment on Jews in Concentration camps. That is just evil propaganda from the allies’.
Would you think (a) that person is a brave believer in truth, or (b) quite sympathetic to the Nazis.

I hope that gives you the context to understand how strongly I feel against people making arguments like this.

Do you deny it?

And the Israel apologists arrive again in force.

No the poster didn't absolve Hamas. No one is.
You need to make a distinction between explaining what happened and excusing it.
What is happening now did not start on 07/10 but in1948, then made worse in 1967. This is an explanation not an excuse.

People who have so lost their moral compass, so lost sight of the humanity of all humans, that they observe a mass atrocity and still side with the murderers and blame the victims simply based on the race or nationality of the victims.
I don't know if you are being sarcastic.

You need to stop and reflect on who are the people throughout history that aligns you with.

Sarcasm again?

Do you really not see the problem with Israel's response? Do you think trapping people and denying them food and water while you bomb their neighbourhoods is reasonable?

Yeah, I gave it thought and came to the conclusion who knows other than hamas

I can think of lots of reasons why they might have done it but I'm not hamas so it would be pure speculation, which I don't see the point in .

Another example of what you’re saying

nobody is denying that what Hamas did on 7-10 is horrible
nobody Is denying that there were people killed by Hamas

but …
each day is proven that some of the things that israel said had happened at the beginning were lies , and the reason for this war and killing of thousands of Gazans… and I keep saying it their lies and propaganda are making people not trust them at all (it’s been a lot of lies in the last nearly 2 months)

As I’ve said before. The Israeli government have not done anything comparable to what Hamas did, neither in actions or intentions, and I suggest you look in detail at what they did so that you can see this for yourself.

And yes, the implication in your post that the Israelis brought this on themselves is disgusting.

I am saying Hamas knowingly brought this on a Palestinians. I am not saying Palestinians brought it on themselves. I am saying Hamas did and deliberately did in this single day act of calculated atrocity. Because they don’t give much more of a shit about Palestinians than they do about Jews ( let’s be clear, this was a racist attack against Jews. The terrorists are clear about this in the videos they made of themselves).

Tbh, you are increasingly sounding like an apologist for Hamas in your steadfast refusal to acknowledge this. You increasingly sound like you think Hamas had justification for this.

But to answer your question, yes, I think BN was foolish to think Hamas could be ‘contained and managed’ and that he took his eye off the ball to the threat they presented to Israelis.

If you say so!

No need to apologise, my mistake for assuming you had given what you were posting some actual thought. in fact you’re not interested in wasting time thinking about why Hamas committed atrocities when you could be criticising Israel.

Pithy answers dont cut it @Sussurations . Too many people, too many children murdered. Your pithy replies are beneath us. We see what is happening. The world sees what is happening. And no matter how many pro Israel posters pop up on mn, the world will hold Israel accountable for this. One day. Maybe not soon, but one day. And Israel will loose any credibility it thought it had.

Erm, sorry! Didn't realise I was supposed to have some indepth knowledge of the workings of hamas🙄

‘Who knows?’ Is that the best you can do?

Oh ffs. I'm sick of reading posts like these. What is wrong with these posters who seem to revel in the awful descriptions of what happened on oct 7th? Yes, it was deplorable, yes the world was sickened, no one heard what happened and shrugged their shoulders. NO ONE!! Do you understand that? NO ONE is saying what happened isn't utterly incomprehensible. And you and others relaying the gory details again and again are utterly shameful. I'll say it again, THIS ISNT MURDER TOP TRUMPS.
So stop it. Stop justifying the murders of over 13000 people. The Internet could be full of stories of people burned, crushed, blown up in Gaza in horrible ways BUT IT ISN'T. I haven't read any gory descriptions thankfully, even though there are thousands in Gaza, literally thousands. What is happening there is bad enough without the horrible descriptions. So stop trying to use the horrible ways people died to justify the ongoing genocide. Its deplorable to try to do this. Shameful.

So are you saying that Israel are almighty stupid for not expecting a severe terrorist attack? They have spent years torturing and brutalising and murdering Palestinians, did they do that to goad Hamas, to bring a terror attack on their people? After all it is just not feasible to pretend that they didn't realise this and intend it to happen right?