Just sick

Then you need to look a little bit harder instead of being so wilfully ignorant. You’ll find plenty online of IDF brutality. Go ahead and search, but you won’t. Your rhetoric is really embarrassing.

I really can't believe that there are people this naive? Do you think the Palestinians killed by Israel this year prior to 7/10 had leaflet drops to let them know when they were going to be shot? That they knock on the door during the day to let children know that that night they will be bursting into their homes, dragging them out of bed and taking them away to be tortured?

What about this testimony from a teacher in Area C: On an exam day in May 2018 the soldiers threw sound bombs, devices which emit extremely loud and even deafening noises, into the school grounds. Israeli settlers accompanied the military into the school grounds and began breaking the teachers’ car windows. As the soldiers teargassed the school, the teachers made the decision to evacuate the students from the grounds.

^^ Are those the actions of benevolent people who just want to live in peace and are only protecting their borders like every other country out their?

‘The Occupying Power shall, with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions devoted to the care and education of children.’ - This is from the Geneva convention, do you think Israel are abiding by international law?

You don't need to spend much time looking to find that Israel have been terrorising Palestinians from a young age for decades. Nothing can fixed whilst Israel and their supporters pretend that their shit doesn't stink.

From the article you just linked:

Egypt has jointly blockaded Gaza since 2007. Now, in effect this means that Egypt and Israel have both been interested in limiting the arms flowing into Gaza because they don’t want Hamas armed. Thats cause back when Hamas got into Jordan they tried to assassinate the King and start a coup.

so yes- there are border controls around Gaza, and neither Egypt nor Israel are prepared to let goods flow without inspection because they don’t want certain things in Gaza (like arms).

The current blockade, again, is what happens. If you rely on Israel for your water and electricity, and you don’t want them to turn off the tap, then don’t invade, rape, torture and murder them.

Keep in mind that this is really about a step too far- Hamas have been launching rockets at Israel for the last 15-16 years and they haven’t stopped the supply of basic civilian infrastructure. Israel has tolerated a HUGE amount and kept aid and other supplies flowing. But now the October 7 attack was obviously too much.

Well it doesn’t help if Israel keeps bombing the only existing exit - the Rafah crossing! Is this what a civilised country does as border control?

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231010-gaza-egypt-crossing-hit-by-israel-for-second-day-afp

Which blockade are you referring to? For the last 16 years Israel has allowed the flow of aid into Gaza, along with supplying water and electricity.

The blockade for the last 16 years has been border control.

The current blockade is what happens. Have you noticed the sanctions against Russia for its acts of aggression in Ukraine?

Hamas, the governing body of Gaza, launched an attack on Israel. Israel have closed down the border and ceased all trade. There are other options- they could trade with Egypt. The fact that you think Israel should still provide services to Gaza (of which Hamas will benefit) after their attack is just absurd.

Like Hamas are always murdering Israelis? I mean they’re worse at it, but the Iron Dome wasn’t invented for fun.

• at least the Israelis do things like the knock on the roof and leaflet drops. It’s just a shame that once Hamas know that Israel are targeting a building they force all the women and children to stand on the roof. Cause, you know, Hamas like killing Palestinians.

Which is a vast, vast difference. Collateral damage is nothing even like the same as targeting civilians. Except when Hamas claim that every Jew is a settler and therefore a valid military target.

As I said, you ignore the blockade so discussing this with you is pointless. Your last post is ridiculous.

In fact, Gigi Haddid has JUST apologised for making this exact remark because it wasn’t factual…

You mean border control? Like…every country in the world has? Like how when you move from the UK to France you have your vehicle inspected and have to provide a manifest of the goods you’re moving? That blockade?

Or are you talking the last 16 years where Israel has provided water and power to Gaza?

Which one are you referring to?

They're always murdering Palestinians though. They killed 200 in 2023 before October.

I'm talking about the blockade of the last 16 years or so.

No, I don’t think so. I have never seen GoPro footage of an Israeli raid into Gaza and mass kidnapping and parading half naked raped women through the street to be spat on.

Sorry Israel arming Hamas? BN played a role in trying to allow Gazans work visas and turning a blind eye to Hamas diversion of aid funding- and I think he’ll pay a political price for that. But Israel didn’t arm Hamas. Iran does that. Iran fund Hamas. Hamas also steal billions, so yes, the UK, US, EU have all, indirectly, funded Hamas by giving aid. But not Israel.

I think Israelis have been capturing, raping and torturing Palestinian citizens for decades, though. Haven’t they?

The Israeli blockade of the last few weeks is not the reason why life in Gaza has been miserable for a long time.

If you’re complaining that Israel are no longer willing to provide infrastructure to Gaza after their leadership declared war, then you’re howling. Why would Israel continue to provide food, water and electricity to a state that has declared war on them?

Again, Gaza has a border with Egypt. Why don’t Egypt allow electricity, water, food and anything else into Gaza? Israel has no control over the southern border. Gaza didn’t invade, capture, rape and torture Egyptian citizens. They did it to the Israelis.

Israel apologists have all been brainwashed into thinking their nation are benevolent cuddly people who don’t routinely practice apartheid and brutal military occupation and rule. Of course they’ll ignore the role Israel has had to play in creating and supporting and arming Hamas.

If you're just going to ignore the Israeli blockade on Gaza then there's no point discussing this further.

Imagine if Israel had let billions in foreign aid flow into Gaza, and committed to supplying basic civilian infrastructure and allowing Gazans work visas to travel into Israel to work.

oh wait, they did that already.

it isn’t Israel who has made Gaza unliveable. It’s Hamas. Imagine living without fresh running water, and then a pipe gets laid in your town, and then a week later people who wouldn’t blink twice at murdering you come along and rip up those pipes. Problem is not just that they’ve made it unliveable, but that they are determined to ensure it remains unliveable because they want to kill Jews.

Yep. I’d DEFINITELY prefer to live in Israel. Even after being spat on while in Jerusalem. Frankly I’d even prefer Jordan. Maybe not after the Arab Spring because that made a lot of these countries way more dangerous, but when I went to Jordan in 2009, it was fine. As my friend said: “don’t fuck about, don’t find out.” I was able to spend two weeks there, walked around town. I kept my head covered, I didn’t draw attention to myself, but it was fine. I sure as hell wouldn’t go to Gaza.

How do people who say Israel is a democracy etc explain why Israel has so, so many children in jail, majority of whom have never been tried for crimes and who face torture in prison? I'm genuinely curious how you justify this.

Or even

How is it justified that Israel controls whether Gazans can collect rain water

Or have the control to shut on and off power, food, water, etc?

Really, genuinely curious how you justify these. None of these are related to Hamas or terror.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/30/israel-hasnt-been-a-democracy-for-a-long-time-now-israelis-need-to-face-this-fact

Israel is not a democracy.

@Tigerteal - agree. There is an absolute refusal to see brutal occupation, apartheid, taking hundreds of children as "prisoners" (read - hostages) annually plus the torture that goes with it, control over food, water and even rainfalll, regular organ and skin theft, by the brutal Israeli govt on here. What happened on Oct 7th was a horror, what happened since 1948 and 1967 an abomination for mankind.

People refuse to see beyond their blinkers because it challenges their status quo, it forces them to face reality which they don't want to confront and forces them to see the demonised as actually human with rights the same as theirs.

if Palestine wants to spend their ENTIRE budget on luxury items then GOOD FOR THEM.

It’s not, though, is it? It may be good for the Hamas kingpins who live in luxury and spend money building tunnels and on rockets to fire into Israel day in and day out, but for the ordinary people in Gaza I would imagine it’s not as good as stuff like, you know, food and infrastructure.

You may not like what Israel is doing but that doesn’t mean that Israel is not a democracy. It is, just as plenty of other countries who do things we might not like are democracies. Declaring war on Iraq was a low point for the UK for example and some would argue that was illegal but it doesn’t change the nature of the system of government.

Are you calling mumsnetters evil because they don't share your opinion?

How rude

Never again. Unless you are Palestinian.