"The war in Gaza has been an intense lesson in western hypocrisy. It won’t be forgotten"

I’m also really disturbed seeing played out the “pick a side..tribalism” that a PP mentioned upthread. I can’t get my head around people being labelled anti-Semitic or hateful for wanting the bombing of Gaza to stop, permanently. Why is this anti-Semitic? It’s not anti- anyone; it’s pro-humanity.

I also don’t understand why anyone would label any expression of horror or outage at the October 7th massacres as “Islamophobia”. It’s possible to deplore ALL the brutality and senseless killing without “taking sides”.

Totally agree
I have been shocked by the callousness of some posters and the complete disregard for human life.
The dehumanisation of thousands of women and children and the constant deflection.
Shocking to say the least

A positive is that Gen Z are looking for footage directly from Gaza as part of informing themselves. They are not relying on what mainstream news is reporting no matter where they live because they know it gets filtered and edited and interpreted. It does give me hope because as the article states, it took months or years, sometimes years after a war had ended before people realised there had been hypocrisy and double standards.

Sadly, I don't think this contrast really holds. A million people demonstrated in London at the time of the invasion of Iraq. It was known and documented at the time, including in the 'mainstream media' that the justifications for it were spurious. The only thing that wasn't known was just how devastating it would be for the region and for the international 'rules based' order.

Gaza is more brutal, more bloody than former conflicts, and playing out at a dizzyingly higher speed, in terms of the rapidity with which the death toll shot up. But in other respects it is more of the same international bankrupcy with which we have become familiar since Iraq, and I don't think Gen Z has any startlingly more constructive reaction to it, let alone a superior information channel to inform them of what is happening. The contrary. What I see on social media is the sickeningly familiar spectacle of issues becoming hyper-polemicised, tribalised, discussed with less and less analytical power, as if the whole point was picking a team rather than trying to work out how this running sore of a conflict should be resolved.

Absolutely this

@Decisiontimenow thank you, especially pertinent and a good reminder thay we are doing essential speaking up for the voiceless victims 👌

Hear hear.

@Ixxy1980 well it reminds me of America’s war on Iraq. I was in America that summer and saw the menus in the diners “freedom fries/ traitor toasts” (cos France didn’t support the war)…. The Dixie Chicks were an early example of cancellation for speaking out against Bush (so brave considering their fan base). It was very much “you’re with us or against us”. And that war was just such a horror and continues to be. I read recently there were 4.6million deaths as a result. It made the whole region soooooooo unsafe, just a shocking fk up. And immoral.
so yes it’s crucial to speak out against governments doing harm I’d say.

I’ve also found it crazy how you can’t call out the Israeli government and military without being labelled anti-Israeli or suggested to be an anti-Semite.

I couldn’t care less what religion, race, colour or creed people are, but I do care about people’s and governments actions and words; calling millions of people ‘human animals’ and mercilessly killing thousands of innocent civilians including babies and children, denying them access to medical aid, water or food is barbaric and should absolutely be condemned.

If somebody criticised the UK government, (as I frequently do anyway!) I would not take that as a personal assault to me or to my right to exist.

Can I just say thank you to every single woman who is writing on here advocating for the Palestinian people as human beings deserving of safety and protection, and of life.

I wanted to share this article from Israeli newspaper Haaretz written by a Palestinian journalist who has a regular column there. It has given me encouragement that our solidarity amounts to something.

There are plenty of cynics who call us “useful idiots” and a lot more grim, there are so many women who just want us to shut up and not only have these innocent people die agonising slow deaths but to do so quietly. Stop disturbing them with our reminders of children suffering unknown trauma lying trapped under rubble, wondering when the next bomb is going to hit and where, it’s so hateful of us… others whose racism is so embedded that they just cannot at all believe that we are horrified by what is happening and so instead create a frankly bonkers narrative of Hamas supporters and insist it’s instead motivated by bigotry… I’m at a loss for words regarding their psychology.

But to quote an Israeli guy I follow who has been speaking out against this disaster of a war, in response to abusive comments:
“I am responsible for my own soul and from this story I will emerge mentally sound”…

Keep speaking out, keep sharing, keep hoping because it’s the only thing we can do to make a difference and together we are having an impact. Ultimately, we are responsible to our own soul and what we can pass on to our children. I will never allow my children to justify violence of any kind against innocents.

The last photo cuts off the end of the article, it ends as below (automatic translation from Hebrew so not 100% smooth)

“So you can laugh and patronize these "snowflakes" all you want. But these whistles won't disappear anywhere because they are the future and Israel, what to do, stuck for too long in the past.”

The most depressing aspect of the conflict is that it reminds me just how powerless the ordinary person is. Marches may attract hundreds of thousands, letters and articles may be written in newspapers, but in the end, geopolitical, strategic and economic factors always outweigh anything else. The realpolitik is that humanity and moral considerations are always pushed way down the list.

Is there anything that can be done to change this ?

I'm suspicious of bidens motives here. I think it's likely more about saving face than anything meaningful. Still, better than nothing.

I could have written this myself!

The Telegraph has lost all credibility in this conflict imo. I used to read it, I’m no lefty normally. But I can’t stomach the sort of stuff they’ve been writing about Israel/Palestine.

Today’s Telegraph not pleased that Biden is preferring to avoid further child murders.

The unspeakable atrocities carried out by Hamas on October 7th are rightfully described as a “massacre” but surely the bombing of unarmed civilians who are trapped in a tiny area of land and who cannot flee is a “massacre”, too

I would ask those people calling this a war, how are civilians supposed to surrender? Israel certainly hasn't put any mechanism in place for civilians to surrender and yet they are the ones getting injured, killed and starved.

Thank you for linking to the article; she writes so well and so clearly. The UN seems powerless to act - so what’s the point of it? - and the western leaders who have asked Israel countless times to “stick to international law to avoid a humanitarian catastrophe” when a HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHE is ALREADY unfolding at breakneck speed before our eyes are shameful.

The unspeakable atrocities carried out by Hamas on October 7th are rightfully described as a “massacre” but surely the bombing of unarmed civilians who are trapped in a tiny area of land and who cannot flee is a “massacre”, too - but never worded as such. I too have felt very shocked and angry and helpless and heartbroken by so much brutality and killing.

Yes to the sociopaths.

Remember Iraq and WMD? Took years to find out that was propaganda and that even our own government had fallen for it.

The Government knew all along, they used it as an excuse to get involved, and follow the US like a lost puppy. It was an outrage what they did there.

Perhaps this will lead to some reforms at the international level? The past few years we have been seeing genocides just allowed to happen all around the globe. In Myanmar, Sudan, Nagorno-Karabakh, Brazil, and so on.

It seems the UN has no power except to say please stop or I will say please stop again.

Yeap, me too. Nothing is worse than what is actually happening to the Palestinians but I've just realised, as a seventy-year-old, how many sociopaths walk amongst us.

The other thing I've learnt is how many people are still swayed by mainstream media

Thank you 🙏

honestly I feel exactly like @OuiOuiKitty The way that I’ve seen some MN posters rationalize this genocide has been chilling and eye opening in equal measure. It’s also truly made me understand how deeply ingrained and systemic racism and bias are in the west.

at the same time, I feel like I was sleep walking and now I’m awake. It has truly motivated me to make a permanent change in the way I live my life. I will never stop advocating for Palestine now. I will NEVER again give a penny of my hard earned money to any company or follow any celebrity that “stands” with Israel. I will be more conscious of how I live my life. I also disagree with the statement in the article that nothing will make any difference. Israel is losing the PR battle for the first time, thanks to social media people are starting to discover their atrocities and the younger generation in particular is educating themselves and calling for change. That’s the silver lining for me so we can’t stop speaking up. It is making a difference.

This post really resonates with me, I really feel like Palestine is freeing a lot of people.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cyvo7QeOQ1M/?igshid=ZDE1MWVjZGVmZQ==

Excellent post

And managing not to be deleted😄

Yes, brava to @OuiOuiKitty and @Ohlalalalala and @Desertrose2023 and @parkingt111 and several others, steadily posting away.

I felt frustrated and upset about what was happening over in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan and the Congo, Rwanda, Rohingya genocides at the time. I was cowed and overwhelmed by the Holocaust museum in Berlin and reassured myself that it must have been 'a different time'. I work in a predominantly Muslim city and thought Islamophobia reached its peak after 9/11 but was becoming much less toxic in the UK.

But never, in all 3 decades of being aware of and watching/reading about geo political conflict have I ever experienced the psychological interplay between seeing some of the images in this war and the feeling of being absolutely helpless. There have also been posters on here that have posted with such an intense, dismissive and arrogant superiority and have gaslighted posters in such a way that I am now convinced that there are more dark triad personalities on the loose in the world than I imagined. The posters who think they are absolutely right and won't encounter any nuance or historical context are chilling. It has also blown apart any notion I had that those on the left or right of politics have any high ground. How a forum called 'Mumsnet' can have produced written statements that I have encountered in the last 6 weeks I will never know.

However, there have been a cohort of about 5-6 posters who have consistently, calmly and brilliantly posted facts, evidence and avoided being baited and just reminded everyone every day that children are dying and it is not okay. I salute them.