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Conflict in the Middle East

Mainly about Al Shifa [bombed front of hospital 3]

992 replies

Efacsen · 26/11/2023 18:18

Continuation from thread 3

The on-going dire situation at the hospital

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Efacsen · 01/12/2023 13:02

I wondered about that too @Iwasafool

Maybe there will be checkpoints IDK

There is also a plan being circulated about rounding up 'low level Hamas operatives' and exiling them to another country - who would want them?? US is in favour of this to shorten the war and apparently it has been done before when Tunisia accepted PLO fighters from the ?WB

Checkpoints have already been used to arrest people presumably like this so more checkpoints would pick up even more low level Hamas IDK

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Iwasafool · 01/12/2023 12:59

I might be missing something but can't Hamas access the information and move along with the civilian population? Bombing an area when you have given Hamas advanced warning to move won't result in Hamas being hit will it?

Efacsen · 01/12/2023 12:48

@Parkingt111 there's little sense that these are actually people rather than livestock being moved from field to field except for the ill concealed threat of harm at the end

Like you say Day1 but we can all see the problems not far down the line

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Parkingt111 · 01/12/2023 12:38

This was on the BBC today. Its still the first day so I'm personally waiting to see still if its implemented and how

In a statement, the IDF says the map is designed "to enable the residents of Gaza to orient themselves and understand the instructions, and to evacuate from specific places for their safety if required".
The new approach raises a host of questions.
This morning’s leaflets did not appear to refer to any of the numbered blocks. A message in Arabic merely told residents of four named (but not numbered) areas to "evacuate immediately and go to shelters in Rafah.”
It ended with the words: "You’ve been warned."

Efacsen · 01/12/2023 12:37

]I'm sorry I don't think I can reply to you all and anyway pretty much agree with you all about the practicalities of implementing this 'looks good on paper plan'

So far, and I know it's early days, there seem to have been about 10 deaths/ hour which is a vast improvement on when it was a child dying every 10 minutes

Perhaps it will save lives but inevitably cause even more suffering in the process

It will be interesting to see how the aid agencies respond

There's another interesting article next to this one about IDF using AI which overlaps with this new strategy

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Parkingt111 · 01/12/2023 12:24

I have my reservations on how it will work on a practical basis and although not ideal for civilians i would like wait and see on how it is implemented. It's definitely a better step than what happened in the North and it seems the US have put their foot down that it can't be repeated again

Still hoping for a full ceasefire though
Qatar and Egypt are still making efforts. I

stormy4319trevor · 01/12/2023 11:56

@Toothyfruity Well, it is rather ridiculous to pretend these people all have working, charged mobile phones and functioning internet access - yes.

OuiOuiKitty · 01/12/2023 11:52

Toothyfruity · 01/12/2023 11:49

Israel doesn't care if it works or not. It's just something that sounds humane that will make Israelis and Americans feel a bit better about Israel bombing civilians.

This is exactly it. It's all for show. Shuffling people to here and there and if they don't manage to move on time then it's not Israels fault, the most moral army in the world warned them 🤷🏻‍♀️

parksandrecs · 01/12/2023 11:52

Toothyfruity · 01/12/2023 11:49

Israel doesn't care if it works or not. It's just something that sounds humane that will make Israelis and Americans feel a bit better about Israel bombing civilians.

Sadly I think you are right

Arafina · 01/12/2023 11:52

Efacsen · 01/12/2023 11:10

This is the plan to make leafleting more effective and reduce civilian casualties

Israel’s military announced on Friday morning that it was dividing the entirety of Gaza into dozens of numbered blocks as a prelude, it said, to demanding targeted local evacuations in the crowded south of the strip ahead of planned bombing. It dropped leaflets over Gaza on Friday with a QR code to a website with a map of all the areas and geolocating people within them.

Earlier this week Israeli military sources said they anticipated the next phase of the operation in Gaza to involve an attack on the south, and in particular Khan Younis, where it believes Hamas’s leadership is based, and that Israel’s Defense Forces would call for the local civilian population to relocate on a district by district basis before likely targeting the area with airstrikes and artillery.

Sounds like some kind of sick computer game, what kind of human being thinks this is ok? those poor people must be driven demented being pushed from pillar to post, bombed on, starved, no medical facilities etc etc when is it going to be enough fgs

Toothyfruity · 01/12/2023 11:49

stormy4319trevor · 01/12/2023 11:42

@Efacsen I'm wondering about the QR code and website, and whether people have adequate internet access to use it. If they do, I suppose they need to keep checking website to see if they need to move. I'm a bit dubious about how well this is going to work.

Israel doesn't care if it works or not. It's just something that sounds humane that will make Israelis and Americans feel a bit better about Israel bombing civilians.

stormy4319trevor · 01/12/2023 11:42

Efacsen · 01/12/2023 11:10

This is the plan to make leafleting more effective and reduce civilian casualties

Israel’s military announced on Friday morning that it was dividing the entirety of Gaza into dozens of numbered blocks as a prelude, it said, to demanding targeted local evacuations in the crowded south of the strip ahead of planned bombing. It dropped leaflets over Gaza on Friday with a QR code to a website with a map of all the areas and geolocating people within them.

Earlier this week Israeli military sources said they anticipated the next phase of the operation in Gaza to involve an attack on the south, and in particular Khan Younis, where it believes Hamas’s leadership is based, and that Israel’s Defense Forces would call for the local civilian population to relocate on a district by district basis before likely targeting the area with airstrikes and artillery.

@Efacsen I'm wondering about the QR code and website, and whether people have adequate internet access to use it. If they do, I suppose they need to keep checking website to see if they need to move. I'm a bit dubious about how well this is going to work.

Parkingt111 · 01/12/2023 11:36

And I think it's another reason for such high civilian casualties
At times there are 50 or more displaced people sheltering in one house which means that the bombing of it results in huge numbers of casualties

Parkingt111 · 01/12/2023 11:34

I'm waiting to see how it will be implemented
As this morning people were told to move to Rafah but then there were strikes in Rafah too.

Also at what point can they come back
It can't be like the north where they just can't come back again because there physically isn't enough space in the south to do that
It was already densely populated prior to the war so much much higher now

Efacsen · 01/12/2023 11:10

This is the plan to make leafleting more effective and reduce civilian casualties

Israel’s military announced on Friday morning that it was dividing the entirety of Gaza into dozens of numbered blocks as a prelude, it said, to demanding targeted local evacuations in the crowded south of the strip ahead of planned bombing. It dropped leaflets over Gaza on Friday with a QR code to a website with a map of all the areas and geolocating people within them.

Earlier this week Israeli military sources said they anticipated the next phase of the operation in Gaza to involve an attack on the south, and in particular Khan Younis, where it believes Hamas’s leadership is based, and that Israel’s Defense Forces would call for the local civilian population to relocate on a district by district basis before likely targeting the area with airstrikes and artillery.

https://www.idf.il/ar/%d8%ac%d9%8a%d8%b4-%d8%a7%d9%84%d8%af%d9%81%d8%a7%d8%b9-%d8%a7%d9%84%d8%a5%d8%b3%d8%b1%d8%a7%d8%a6%d9%8a%d9%84%d9%8a/%d8%ac%d9%8a%d8%b4-%d8%a7%d9%84%d8%af%d9%81%d8%a7%d8%b9-%d8%a7%d9%84%d8%a5%d8%b3%d8%b1%d8%a7%d8%a6%d9%8a%d9%84%d9%8a/swordsofiron-181123-118/

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Efacsen · 01/12/2023 08:50

Apologies I was wrong

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Parkingt111 · 01/12/2023 08:43

However the crucial part that he didn't say is how the US would react if this wasn't adhered to.
So again could it just be the US covering their own backs from backlash?

Parkingt111 · 01/12/2023 08:42

This is from the Times of Israel
It was after Blinkens visit yesterday

Blinken said he told Israeli leaders that the IDF must prepare for how it will keep civilians safe before resuming its military campaign, including setting up safe zones.
“I made clear that before Israel resumes major military operations, it must put in place humanitarian, civilian protection plans that minimize further casualties of innocent Palestinians. That means taking more effective steps to protect the lives of civilians, including by clearly and precisely designating areas and places in southern and central Gaza where they can be safe and out of the line of fire.”
He also said Israel must avoid further mass displacement of Palestinians; avoid the targeting of “life-critical infrastructure” such as hospitals power stations and water treatment plants; and allow the eventual return of displaced Palestinians to northern Gaza.

Efacsen · 01/12/2023 08:38

Maybe I'm wrong but thought it was the UN rather than US who said no more bombing hospitals? In which case it will be 100% ignored

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Parkingt111 · 01/12/2023 08:35

@Efacsen il try and find it but I'm sure I read the US said there can be no more attacks on hospitals

Efacsen · 01/12/2023 08:34

Posting this here as well - think I'm de-railing the 'Detainees, Truce etc' thread

Unicef spokesman James Elder has reported that an airstrike landed about 50 metres away from the “biggest still functioning hospital in Gaza.”

“This hospital simply cannot take more children with the wounds of war,” he says in a video posted on X, formerly known as Twitter. He pans briefly to children asleep on the floor of a hospital room. Elder is the chief of communications for the United Nation’s Children’s Fund. His post was accompanied with the caption “Has humanity given up on the children of Gaza?”

“I cannot overstate how the capacity has been reduced in hospitals over the last seven weeks. We cannot see more children with the wounds of war, with the burns, the shrapnel litering their body, with their broken bones. Inaction from those with influence is allowing the killing of children. This is a war on children.”

Gaza | World news | The Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/world/gaza

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Efacsen · 01/12/2023 05:02

Article in the Daily Mail

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12811115/Red-Cross-says-footage-filmed-Gaza-City-hospital-showing-decomposing-bodies-premature-babies-left-die-beds-represents-unspeakable

Not really read it but on a quick skim all the videos and interviews seem to be there

Nothing in my favoured places but hopefully news of these poor babies deaths will soon begin to be known more widely - what on earth must their parents be feeling faced with such horror

End or not of ceasefire may drown it out?

Red Cross: Footage of 'decomposing babies' an 'unspeakable tragedy'

The Red Cross says that footage that allegedly shows the bodies of five Palestinian children left to die in the Al-Nasr Hospital in Gaza represents an 'unspeakable tragedy.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12811115/Red-Cross-says-footage-filmed-Gaza-City-hospital-showing-decomposing-bodies-premature-babies-left-die-beds-represents-unspeakab

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parksandrecs · 30/11/2023 23:20

Why are some lives more important than others?

parksandrecs · 30/11/2023 23:18

It is horrendous

Parkingt111 · 30/11/2023 23:03

@Toothyfruity thank you that link worked

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