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Conflict in the Middle East

Mainly about Al Shifa [bombed front of hospital 3]

992 replies

Efacsen · 26/11/2023 18:18

Continuation from thread 3

The on-going dire situation at the hospital

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Parkingt111 · 04/12/2023 08:02

Watching Khan younis be destroyed has been heart breaking. And the strikes are almost non stop
The casualties and deaths must be sky high. My theory is that Israel knows it doesn't realistically have months left to continue the war and therefore going for mass destruction rather than a targeted approach
There's no other way I can see it
It's like a savage frenzied attack
I don't see this as an attack on Hamas, but rather an attack on Gaza

An- Nassar hospital is a much needed life line even though they are already limited in how much they can help, if it goes the same route as Al Shifa then I can't see any coming back from it for Israel.

Efacsen · 04/12/2023 07:12

Yeah I get that @parksandrecs just wondering if it's to pre-empt all the 'that's not much of a command centre' 'was it worth all the death and destruction for that' blow back

Might mean nothing at all

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parksandrecs · 04/12/2023 07:07

'Command centre' implies infrastructure I suppose, which makes an attack on a hospital more acceptable to some.

'Leadership' is people, who can move away from the place being bombarded, so less of an excuse for attacking a hospital?

Efacsen · 04/12/2023 06:28

Khan Younis becomes focus of intense bombardments

All day yesterday and thro' the night - hope they're being very very careful not to damage the al- Nassar hospital it will be needed for the newly injured - goodness knows how they'll find room or staff to treat them from the recent reports

Is al-Nassar going to become al-Shifa 2.0 if the assault gets closer - can't imagine there's anywhere in the Rafah hospitals to evacuate to

Hamas 'leadership' rather than command centre now being reported to be in Khan Younis - don't know if there's any significance to the change of wording

700 people reportedly killed on Saturday with many still in the rubble - one of the highest amounts for one day which doesn't bode well for the newly being mindful of the safety of civilians

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Toothyfruity · 04/12/2023 00:06

Dreadful. The lack of humanity is really just beyond belief. Those doing it and those defending it.

Parkingt111 · 03/12/2023 22:15

Sky news is reporting on An- Nassar hospital
Situation there is terrible. Children being treated on the dirty blood streaked floors as not enough beds and way over capacity
They didn't post any videos of what they saw as it was deemed too graphic to share

Parkingt111 · 03/12/2023 22:00

It's not been long since MSF asked for an explanation and investigation after two of their staff were killed by Israeli snipers

Just now another ambulances attacked, wounding two paramedics

Two paramedics wounded after Israeli forces 'fire on' ambulances - PRCSThe Palestine Red Crescent has said two paramedics and a patient have been wounded after Israeli forces fired on ambulances.
The organisation said the crews were hit in the Faluja area in northern Gaza while transporting an injured person.

stormy4319trevor · 03/12/2023 13:02

Take care of yourself @Iwasafool Hope you are OK

Iwasafool · 03/12/2023 12:00

I'm ill, my chest infection is getting worse and I haven't slept in days so excuse me if this sounds mad. Had GC here and we all settled down to watch Independence Day, Will Smith saving the world from aliens. As I watched the cities being destroyed and the people trying to get to safety I thought this is Gaza.

Then the world came together, Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum found a weakness, military from every country came together and defeated the monsters. This isn't Gaza though as the world isn't coming together to defeat the monsters destroying the cities, killing civilians. Where's Will Smith when you need him.

Sorry probably a crazy thing to think, DH says he's taking me to hospital, my oxygen levels are low and falling.

Efacsen · 03/12/2023 11:31

@Parkingt111 no I don't know what was the outcome of the Jordanian field hospital debacle - the story sort of died a death - but maybe that's why none of the others have been erected lest they are immediately told to take them down again

All the 'hospital ships' we discussed before still aren't being utilised either

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Parkingt111 · 03/12/2023 11:20

@Efacsen do you know what came about the Jordanian field hospital that Israel was saying had to be dismantled?

Parkingt111 · 03/12/2023 11:02

@parksandrecs yes exactly
I remember when Al shifa was first being mentioned by Israeli officials and for many the alarming bells were ringing as to what was going to come. At that time they were insisting that although they thought Hamas HQ was there, they weren't going to attack.
I really did not think they would have either
Over the days I watched how the rhetoric was changing from not going to attack to maybe we will to we have no choice but to

And the lead up to it was just as horrifying as the aftermath
I know for some this was the tipping point from Israel has a right to defend itself to 'not like this' i can't defend this any longer

Parkingt111 · 03/12/2023 10:57

This was said yesterday

Israel's main ally, the US, is calling for stronger action to avoid civilian deaths in Gaza.
Defence secretary Lloyd Austin said Israel had a “moral responsibility” to protect civilians.
"If you drive them into the arms of the enemy, you replace a tactical victory with a strategic defeat,"

Parkingt111 · 03/12/2023 10:50

It will remain to be seen if this is adhered to. Biden is starting to realise the influence he once thought he had has greatly diminished or one that he himself over estimated

parksandrecs · 03/12/2023 10:49

Yes, the hospital was definitely the HQ, and the only way to dismantle the HQ was to attack the hospital... and US intelligence confirms it!

and then, as you say, that's forgotten and somewhere else the IDF want to bombard is 'definitely' Hamas HQ.

It's WMD all over again, isn't it? Which were a threat to the whole world, and Iraq would be turned into a peaceful, democratic country... oh wait, there were no WMD, and Iraq is no safer for civilians than it was before.

But that's OK, because the people affected weren't people like us...

Parkingt111 · 03/12/2023 10:46

The US have said there can be no more attacks on hospitals or critical infrastructure. I think they have reached the point where even they can no longer defend it

Parkingt111 · 03/12/2023 10:42

Yes, it's very conveniently moved to khan Younis now
There was huge international opposition to raiding and taking over Al Shifa hospital. And the pros of doing so with what little proof or evidence they had was miniscule compared to the damage, loss of life, injuries and trauma on the thousands of displaced civilians sheltering there

And what exactly was gained from it to justify this?

Netanyahu said quite arrogantly that they did it despite the opposition. To show that there is no place in Gaza we can't over take

Efacsen · 03/12/2023 10:36

I saw an on twitter a while ago, an ex-Israeli military intelligence officer saying that the importance of al-Shifa as Hamas HQ had been 'over-estimated' - make of that what you will - twitter+no chance of me finding it again

Hamas 'Command centre' according to IDF is now in Khan Younis - it would make sense to have moved it south but does anyone remember Ehud Barack ex prime minister saying Hamas HQ was in Khan Younis not al-shifa [before the fall of al-shifa]

Maybe the structure of Hamas command is different from what was expected from prior intelligence

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OuiOuiKitty · 03/12/2023 10:22

Parkingt111 · 03/12/2023 10:05

And seems like most have skipped over the fact that there was no sophisticated HQ under Al Shifa hospital like they claimed

A few weapons, a calender, one lift shaft, a tunnel that there only seems to be drone footage of and a abandoned cellar that had little to no sign of use.

Where was this great sophisticated HQ that they showed all those elaborate AI pictures of? There was nothing of the sort

And after all that there was outrage when former israeli PM told a reporter that ofcourse there's a bunker under Al Shifa because Israel were the ones who built it

I really don't understand how this can be glossed over. They terrorised medical staff and patients for days, babies and vulnerable patients died because of it. We were told that they had proof of a sophisticated hq and then nothing. Israel just moves on to committing the next horror and people say 'But what else are they supposed to do' 🤷🏻‍♀️

Efacsen · 03/12/2023 10:12

@Parkingt111 it looks more and more like the total removal of healthcare is nearing completion

And whilst it's another drop in the ocean - the promised field hospitals don't seem to have started running either - not clear why that is. They are only of modest bed-capacity and nowhere near enough to compensate for the loss of the majority of the 9000 hospital beds there were pre-war

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EasterIssland · 03/12/2023 10:08

Parkingt111 · 03/12/2023 10:05

And seems like most have skipped over the fact that there was no sophisticated HQ under Al Shifa hospital like they claimed

A few weapons, a calender, one lift shaft, a tunnel that there only seems to be drone footage of and a abandoned cellar that had little to no sign of use.

Where was this great sophisticated HQ that they showed all those elaborate AI pictures of? There was nothing of the sort

And after all that there was outrage when former israeli PM told a reporter that ofcourse there's a bunker under Al Shifa because Israel were the ones who built it

Don’t forget that the tunnel had been built by them.

as I saw a comment yesterday hostages have been returned by talking and agreeing things between both countries. Not by destroying the country (and even less getting rid of Hamas)

Parkingt111 · 03/12/2023 10:05

And seems like most have skipped over the fact that there was no sophisticated HQ under Al Shifa hospital like they claimed

A few weapons, a calender, one lift shaft, a tunnel that there only seems to be drone footage of and a abandoned cellar that had little to no sign of use.

Where was this great sophisticated HQ that they showed all those elaborate AI pictures of? There was nothing of the sort

And after all that there was outrage when former israeli PM told a reporter that ofcourse there's a bunker under Al Shifa because Israel were the ones who built it

Parkingt111 · 03/12/2023 09:58

The report of the Al-Nassar hospital sounds awful. This is one of the things I am really concerned about, the IDF have destroyed alot of the healthcare infrastructure and now the intense bombardment has started again, where will the injured go?
There's also many healthcare professionals who have been killed or injured
And right now in some of the hospitals they are already at the capacity to treat those who have critical injuries which means there's alot more civilians including children who will go untreated and die from infections

Efacsen · 03/12/2023 09:09

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 03/12/2023 08:59

Just hideous and inhumane.

Totally agree

Only 10 hospitals still 'functioning' out of 36 And this is one of them
Expect the others are no better

Hope that there will be a large consignment of morphine in the next humanitarian aid delivery

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marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 03/12/2023 08:59

Just hideous and inhumane.