Detainees, Truce and Agreements *title altered at OP's request*

Off topic - please try and focus on one thing at a time

The hostage exchange agreement came as a whole package - breaking any part of it was a breach with no special consideration for hostage lists

The Bibas family was obviously a major source of contention with both parties propogandising it which just inflamed a tense fragile situation

@Stomacharmeleon

Statement in case anyone hasn't seen it.

I am talking merely about the hostage part. I assume there were agreed lists that were not stuck to. Leaving women out of it then if they were reservists what about kfir, Ariel and their mum? Hamas agreed to hand them over and changed the goal posts several times.

Moving forward I am not sure what will happen if they don't agree terms and still are at an 'empasse'. The women in light of what we do know of Hamas need to be released whoever they are. Sexual violence can never be ok and I am glad the UN has finally made a statement.

Where the families are concerned I am not sure any 'international entity' is going to convince Hamas to release men and soldiers.

There were breaches of the hostage/ceasefire agreement by both parties

The actual disagreement was about allotting women to 'women and children' category or 'women soldiers' category in the light of being IDF reservists

What else could Israel do? IDK has walking away benefitted the hostages?

What would be considered an 'international entity' apart from the ICC nothing else really comes to mind

I personally think all big organisations will have some bad sheep. Its unfortunate and shouldn't happen but it would be naive to think otherwise,even in charities. Despite that I don't think how they could have handled the situation any differently which would have made a big difference to the current situation in regards to aid when they didn't have the sufficient aid allowed in to even work with

@Efacsen if Hamas broke the terms of the hostage release and refused to allow the remaining women and children to go I am not sure how much else Israel can do? They had a deal and hamas broke it.

I know as a parent I would want them back dead or alive but at what cost?

The situation with the aid I wonder (and I am just wondering) whether it's an attempt to force people to go to the aid rather than the other way round? Get Gazan's into Egypt even if it's just for the time being.

I do also agree that the Red Cross and who have had a somewhat hands off approach. I honestly thought negotiations included the Red Cross seeing the reminding hostages? It's in the Israeli paper Today that they don't want them due to the treatment of the young woman hostages.

From Hostage and Missing families

''We urge you to immediately return to the negotiating table, without delay and at any cost. Your indifference towards us is a disgrace. If you have no interest in representing us, we will turn to an international entity that agrees to do so. We will not beg you. If this does not happen, we will sit from 8pm this evening near the Kirya army headquarters and will not move from there.''

I literally only stick to the antisemitism or hostages threads most the time. So that is rubbish as you well know. Just because you don't like my argument or anyone else getting some blame other than the IDF or Israeli government doesn't mean you should lie.

This was a conversation about the humanitarian zone the IDF has asked people to go too. It was also a conversation about the resources and aid available there. I joined the conversation at that point. Then inputted my opinion on both. That is not derailing, that is a conversation.

Haaretz is reporting that a meeting between families of those being held hostage in Gaza and Israel’s war cabinet is being scheduled as a result of the families’ threat to escalate their protests.

**

WHO, we are forgetting the whole covid and China situation I think. You know when they failed to do their job and call an international situation happening when they knew about it. Despite the fact they had all the evidence weeks before that this was the case. All because they didn't what to unset China. WHO lost all creditablity long ago

However yes not enough aid is going in and all actual creditable sources say this. It still doesn't detract from my argument that the UN and Red Cross are inept or iffy during this situation in Gaza. They just are not doing what they need to do and should do in so many situations happening there currently. We can keep making excuses about that or start asking why and demanding they do their job. It is the civilians that suffer when they don't do there job.

It's not bizarre behaviour - it's you either not understanding how it works or being obtuse about some simple facts

Israel has a chokehold over the international aid festering in Egypt - they only permit enough aid to just keep the population alive - there is no slack for forward planning

Seen you de-rail so many threads like this so won't be wasting my time engaging with any more of this nonsense

And thats also a point of contention for those who agree with Israel's right to defend itself.
The blockage of aid or hindering of it is one that most people find quite difficult to defend.
And to others it only highlights why many consider it collective punishment of civilians

They control it going in with Egypt and Hamas but once in they have little control about how the other parties set things up or disruption. Therefore as people go where the aid is taken and handed out etc the agencies have a duty to think forward in order to guide the situation. They clearly are failing in doing this whether by being inept or for other reasons who knows. This has been weeks of frankly bizarre behaviour and not doing what they are supposed too, even taken into account the limit on aid arriving. Therefore yes I do blame not only the IDF but the UN and the red cross for not carrying out their duties towards the civilian population properly

Yup I agree with @Efacsen
The minimum aid that has been allowed into Gaza by Israel is not enough to even meet the absolute basic minimum needs of the people on a normal daily basis let alone in a war zone

And this evaluation has been done by the WHO so it definitely has credibility.

And it's not because of lack of aid. There is plenty waiting on the other side of the border that could alleviate the situation but it is Israel which hinders this

To be fair to them Isrsel have been breaking Insternational humanitarian law and attacking aid workers. They aren't protected there as they should be and aren't safe to move around, they have the same restrictions as civillians. Then there is the fact Gaza is only receiving a fraction of the aid that they did pre war. They have massively restricted movement, they don't have anywhere close to enough aid to go around, they aren't miracle workers. I don't really know what people can expect of them at the moment? 1.7 million displaced people, 10s of 1000s of sick people, everybody needing food and water, everybody traumatised, extremely restricted aid, infrastructure bombed to bits and fearing for their lives. They are just people not miracle workers.

As the Israeli government controls all humanitarian aid going into Gaza - it's curious that you should blame the UN and Red Cross for lack of preparedness and being inept

Yes I thought it was too small an area too. If everyone goes there that has been ask too then it is a massive health risk in the making even if a good camp is set up.

I assume it is thought that large numbers of people won't comply and go there or this is a short term solution. However I don't see it can be short term considering this current situation is likely to take months before the IDF pull out

It does make you wonder what exactly the UN and red cross has been doing for all these weeks thats for sure. I mean you would have thought they would prepare in advance because they have known that Israel saw this as the humanitarian zone they would use. It was announced weeks ago. I get this isn't the best place to ask people to flee too. However the aid and refugee camps are handled by the UN and charities in South Gaza at the moment. Israel can only really interfere at the crossings and in the northern part of Gaza they currently have taken over. This isn't me justifying whatever orders or instructions the IDF have made. It is just me wondering what exactly the UN and charities are doing in Gaza because quite frankly it has varied from inept to horrific corruption since 7th October if not before.

Another important factor is that Mawasi is a small area with insufficient space to accommodate large numbers of internally displaced people - this was tested out pre the ceasefire when IDF sent people there

Qatar have been sending enormous amounts* of aid - most recently 2 planes included 'accommodation' which I assume means more tents but ir's no use if they are sitting in Egypt

And so little aid is getting thro' that food, water and medication are prioritised over tents just to keep them alive

*realise they are immensely wealthy

Mawasi is a tiny strip of wasteland which is no place for an adult to try and survive in let alone a child
They might aswell have asked them to go stand in the desert

Three days ago, we asked the Sky News team in Gaza to go to Al Mawasi to see if any preparations had been made for the evacuees.

They sent back the pictures showing a desolate wasteland of sand dunes next to the Mediterranean Sea. Al Mawasi is an old Bedouin settlement and has little infrastructure, if any.
There is no aid, there are no agency tents, there are no food kitchens. Simply put, there is no help.

That's incorrect
There has been hardly any aid going there
I know my views are slightly biased so this is what sky news reporters found when they went there three days ago

This is from 11th November:

"Israel is asking Palestinians to gather in what it calls a “humanitarian zone” in al-Mawasi, a stretch of palm-lined beach with little infrastructure in the southern Gaza Strip, where Israeli officials say civilians can receive humanitarian aid brought over the border from Egypt."

From what I have been reading over the past few weeks Israel has always suggested this is the best location to flee too and a lot of the aid is going there. Plus it has been set up to handle refugees. Unlikely to have tunnels or building Israel plan to bomb because not a built up area etc.

I think the main issue facing people that flee there is that rainy season is starting. I can't see how so many people can be kept in humanitarian conditions in tents during rainy season.