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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Detainees, Truce and Agreements *title altered at OP's request*

971 replies

stormy4319trevor · 26/11/2023 15:49

Continuing broad discussion of the release of detainees, hostages and prisoners and the agreements around this.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Rachna83 · 11/12/2023 13:34

stormy4319trevor · 11/12/2023 13:25

I'm not sure @Rachna83 All the UN discussions are putting diplomatic pressure on to set an end date to the situation in Gaza at least.

From what I have read today, Israel is saying there is no deadline. It will continue until it's aims are achieved.

Original poster
stormy4319trevor · 11/12/2023 13:31

Thank you @efacsen! I'm a little distracted today and didn't read properly.

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Efacsen · 11/12/2023 13:29

stormy4319trevor · 11/12/2023 13:21

But also, I've not seen any reporting in the west about this resolution being triggered, so we may have to wait and see if it's verified more widely.

The bits I copy/pasted are from the Guardian live feed early hours this morning - also saw it on the BBC live feed

Rachna83 · 11/12/2023 13:28

Yes at least there is pressure and a determination shown to bring it back to the table. In terms of action let's see.

Original poster
stormy4319trevor · 11/12/2023 13:25

I'm not sure @Rachna83 All the UN discussions are putting diplomatic pressure on to set an end date to the situation in Gaza at least.

OP posts:
Parkingt111 · 11/12/2023 13:24

There are lots of talks with how the current system is flawed
I don't see it changing anytime soon but this conflict has highlighted this
I am also interested to see what transpires from it
Maybe it could lead to further pressure on a new truce being negotiated?

Rachna83 · 11/12/2023 13:21

Watching this with interest. Will it do anything other than show the US and UK in an increasingly isolated position. US are determined to back Israel, even bypassing Congress to supply arms so I don't see any change in position just the usual empty words of everyone needs to adhere to international law. Well clearly that's not happening. Yet what does anyone actually have the power to do? incredibly frustrating.

Original poster
stormy4319trevor · 11/12/2023 13:21

But also, I've not seen any reporting in the west about this resolution being triggered, so we may have to wait and see if it's verified more widely.

OP posts:
Original poster
stormy4319trevor · 11/12/2023 13:17

@Parkingt111 I think the resolution was triggered by the 5 permanent members not agreeing on the ceasefire vote. So, it's a way to create further discussion and hopefully reach agreement amongst the UN as to further action. The UN is dedicated to peace, so, as you say, they won't want to use armed force, but it creates pressure to keep talking about the issues. I don't know anything about world diplomacy, but it's rather fascinating to see it working in action. The humanitarian situation is so awful that I have retreated a bit into just trying to understand how systems work to resolve conflict.

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Parkingt111 · 11/12/2023 13:13

There has also been strikes in the occupied territories and East Jerusalem today

Parkingt111 · 11/12/2023 13:11

@stormy4319trevor including the use of armed force when necessary, in order to maintain or restore international security and peace.

It's unlikely for this to happen I think but I'm hoping the vote has some sort of impact in de-escalating the current conflict

Original poster
stormy4319trevor · 11/12/2023 12:59

@Parkingt111 Yes, it's non binding, so would be recommendations only.

OP posts:
Original poster
stormy4319trevor · 11/12/2023 12:58

It's being reported in 'The New Arab', but not hit the G yet, which is slower but where I get my updates. I'll copy and paste a bit from the wiki page, while we wait to see if further reports emerge.

.United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) resolution 377 A,[1] the "Uniting for Peace" resolution, states that in any cases where the Security Council, because of a lack of unanimity among its five permanent members (P5), fails to act as required to maintain international security and peace, the General Assembly shall consider the matter immediately and may issue appropriate recommendations to UN members for collective measures, including the use of armed force when necessary, in order to maintain or restore international security and peace. It was adopted 3 November 1950, after fourteen days of Assembly discussions, by a vote of 52 to 5, with 2 abstentions.[2] The resolution was designed to provide the UN with an alternative avenue for action when at least one P5 member uses its veto to obstruct the Security Council from carrying out its functions mandated by the UN Charter.

United Nations Security Council - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council

OP posts:
Parkingt111 · 11/12/2023 12:58

Efacsen · 11/12/2023 05:49

This is about the emergency UN meeting tomorrow

''There are no vetoes in the General Assembly but unlike the Security Council its resolutions are not legally binding. But they are important as a barometer of global opinion.''

@stormy4319trevor what @Efacsen said here.
This is interesting so as it is non binding it shall remain to be seen how everyone votes

I wonder if the uk will just abstain again

Original poster
stormy4319trevor · 11/12/2023 12:54

@Parkingt111 Looks interesting. There's a wiki page on UN General Assembly Resolution 377.

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Parkingt111 · 11/12/2023 12:54

Efacsen · 11/12/2023 04:54

Better news first - tho' not at all sure if this will make any difference it's evidence of the UN not giving up in the face of US veto on Friday

The UN general assembly, which comprises 193 member states, is likely to vote on a draft resolution calling for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in the ongoing Israel-Gaza war on Tuesday, Reuters reports diplomats saying on Sunday.

**

Oh yes is it this? Thank you il read it now
I didn't realise it was the same thing

Efacsen · 11/12/2023 12:51

@Parkingt111 do you mean more than I posted at 5am above and at the bottom of the last page?

Parkingt111 · 11/12/2023 12:47

Egypt and mauritania has invoked article 377
And called for an emergency meeting

What could be the implications of that? Could it produce any meaningful results? There isn't much information about it right now

Efacsen · 11/12/2023 08:03

@Stomacharmeleon how would the Red Cross do that considering the hostages are unlikely to be in one place, the enormous difficulty getting anywhere atm and Hamas not wanting to give away their positions?

stomachameleon · 11/12/2023 07:48

@Efacsen I have said this on another thread but it's the only card Hamas have left to play. I would want the Red Cross to verify life before I came to the table. Off camera.

Efacsen · 11/12/2023 05:49

This is about the emergency UN meeting tomorrow

''There are no vetoes in the General Assembly but unlike the Security Council its resolutions are not legally binding. But they are important as a barometer of global opinion.''

Efacsen · 11/12/2023 05:06

And then this

''Hamas has warned that no hostages will leave Gaza alive unless its demands for prisoner releases are met.

In a televised statement on Sunday, a Hamas spokesperson said Israel will not receive “their prisoners alive without an exchange and negotiation and meeting the demands of the resistance.”

Really alarming - tho' they have said similar things before and not carried it out so hopefully this is more of the war of words that's escalating atm

Israel | World news | The Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/world/israel

Efacsen · 11/12/2023 04:54

Better news first - tho' not at all sure if this will make any difference it's evidence of the UN not giving up in the face of US veto on Friday

The UN general assembly, which comprises 193 member states, is likely to vote on a draft resolution calling for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in the ongoing Israel-Gaza war on Tuesday, Reuters reports diplomats saying on Sunday.

**

Israel-Gaza war | World news | The Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/world/israel-hamas-war

XRAYTHIS · 10/12/2023 15:24

stomachameleon · 10/12/2023 11:27

Ok let's for arguments sake say it goes back to the UN.
The resolution from the Arab states includes the phrases 'both' and stipulates that Hamas has to release hostages, lay down arms, stop firing rockets and come to the table. As does Israel. No more bombs.

Checks and balance. Both sides have an equal footing and shared responsibility.

It goes through.

Then what happens?

That would be great if everyone put weapons down and all hostages released.

Parkingt111 · 10/12/2023 15:08

I did read somewhere of one opinion that the UN knew that the US would veto but still went ahead regardless to apply pressure to the US. That the war needs to end soon, and the US need to apply more pressure to Israel to reduce civilian casualties
I don't think it has had an effect so far
Blinken has a very tough job to do