Israelis held hostage (part 2)

I heard someone saying something horrible today - that Hamas were not able to release any more female and children hostages because there are no live ones left. Their last offer before the end of ceasefire were 7 hostages and 3 bodies - a lot of people assumed that it would be Bibas mum and babies - instead of 10 live hostages...Which Israel declined.

I know Hamas killed quite a few people already - there is a steady trick of news confirming deaths of hostages - and a lot of people who were assumed kidnapped could have been dead already, as Hamas dragged a lot of bodies back to Gaza after the massacre. No one knows because Hamas seem to really relish this kind of psychological games - enjoying relatives not knowing whether their loved ones are dead or alive, giving false hope and lying.

That’s so sad. How awful to end his life there. I also feel awful for all the families whose loved ones weren’t released and now the ceasefire has ended. Hopefully the sides negotiating can get something agreed on so that this horror can end!

Has the poor young woman who was passed around the terrorists with blood stained jogging bottoms been released. That poor woman. I hope she survived.

Ofra Keidar is also 70.
Maya Goren was 56 but I've seen reports this morning that she has been killed, sadly.

The other women are all aged 18-30 - I'm guessing they weren't covered by the deal, or that Israel asked for them next but Hamas refused.

May he rest in peace, how sad he died there in captivity. I feel traumatised just reading about all this so I can;t imagine how those actually in it feel.

This was sadly reported today

kibbutz in southern Israel has said one of its elderly residents, who was kidnapped on 7 October, has been killed in Gaza.
In a post on Facebook, the account for Kibbutz Nir Oz says 85-year-old Arye Zalmanovich died in Hamas captivity after being kidnapped on 7 October.
The post paying tribute to the father of two and grandfather to five, describes him as a "man of the earth" who worked in agriculture and with crops for his entire life.
Nir Oz was the site of one of the worst massacres committed by Hamas during the attacks on southern Israel.

@Kaffeebitte I wondered this but then if they have them and they are alive, surely it would work better in their favour to share this information rather than saying they're dead? I'm still hopeful though.
Burning those poor boys, it's all so horrendously brutal and awful. And poor Mia looked absolutely traumatised, much like a lot of the other hostages. It doesn't bear thinking about what they've been going through.

The whole situation has weighed heavily, from the innocents in Gaza to the poor families murdered and taken hostage from Israel. The whole situation really does make you lose faith in humanity doesn't it. What have we, as humans, become?!

I really hope there is a way to start the ceasefire again and free the remaining hostages but I agree with previous posters that it sounds like Hamas have run out of hostages for the moment - I'm hoping this is due to not being able to locate them rather than anything more sinister.

My heart dropped when I heard the ceasefire was over, even though I was expecting it.

@Kaffeebitte I am surprised not more pressure on the 'foreign national' front. Or does it depend where they come from?

This is from Aviva Klompas on X, who has been quite reliable.
Hamas is still holding 137 hostages
➡️ 117 men and 20 women
➡️ 126 are Israelis and 11 are foreign nationals
➡️ 2 are children under the age of 18
➡️ 10 are seniors over the age of 75

also this page has a list , Hamas is releasing names of hostages who are dead, but I don’t think these are confirmed so are included:
https://stories.bringthemhomenow.net/

The last elderly woman is Judi Weinstein, who is 70. I’m not sure who the other two ‘eligible’ women are.
It seems that they ran out of people to release under the current deal. So a new one needs to be negotiated.

They’re not counting the women soldiers, of which Noa is one.

They still have Noa (the girl taken on the motorbike) and the solider who was filmed with bloody trousers - they must have more than 3 women left

Jerusalem Post is reporting that Hamas are saying they only have 3 more women and children hostage - but I thought all the children were free now? Could this be the Bibas family - realise this is a remote hope but just wondering.

https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-776065

or maybe the article is badly worded and it means 3 more who could be released under the previous truce deal ?

Poor Mia Shem, her arm looks so painful and broken in the return video. I saw a post that said a vet operated on her, not even a dr. That poor woman.

I really don't know. Gilad Shalit was exchanged for 1027 prisoners, many of whom were terrorists and murderers. Israel obviously won't accept anything even remotely like that ratio this time around. I strongly suspect Hamas will end up getting back whichever terrorists they are specifically after though... They will win in that sense. They always do, which is why they keep taking hostages. I guess we'll see what happens. I really don't envy those whose task it is to negotiate with terrorists. Whose task it is to decide whose life is worth saving and at what cost 🥴

I believe Hamas also commenced a rocket bombardment prior to the ceasefire ending, although both sides would have known it was due to end anyway so it wasn't that which specifically ended it.

@Humdingerydoo what do you think about that? Where is the line drawn?

They supposedly are, yes.

I don't think the remaining women will be returned anytime soon though. I'm sure Hamas will return the elderly men first, if they even have anyone left to return. They didn't provide Israel with a list yesterday, which is why the fighting has resumed. It could either be because they've run out of live hostages but probably more likely because they want more than 3-for-1 for the remaining ones. They'll want to exchange them for specific prisoners, specific terrorists. So a new agreement will have to be drawn up, one that is going to be a whole lot worse for Israel.

I’ve read there are 17 women left hostage.

Hoping a new ceasefire will be agreed speedily. Has anyone seen if talks are continuing despite the resumption of hostilities ?

Really disappointed the ceasefire has ended, but sadly I thought this might happen this week.

I think about Noa Argamani a lot too, the video of her being taken away by Hamas on the motorbike as she desperately reaches out to her boyfriend is burned on my brain

Oh god, Kfir and Ariel and Shiri Bibas. I am so terribly sorry. My heart goes out to Yarden Bibas. It's unbearable

Of course each family is going to think their own family members should be the priority. That's natural. I don't envy those in charge of making these decisions. It shouldn't be a decision to make! All hostages, dead or alive, should obviously be returned without any conditions on their return. It's pure insanity.

And just to pre-empt what feels like the inevitable pouncing - I repeat once again that if anyone is being detained illegally in Israel they should of course also be released without any conditions on their release.

I can totally understand the father's desperation, and also totally understand opting for three living hostages. It's ghastly choices all round.