Israelis held hostage (part 2)

Regarding hostages the UK is going to send a surveillance craft to try and gather intelligence on the possible whereabouts of the hostages.

@Stomacharmeleon do you know if this is verified? I read somewhere that Yahya Sinwar came to meet some of the hostages and that one of them even confronted him

All this time everyone was saying he's hiding in Qatar

@Ixxy1980 interesting article.
I would like Mossad to go after the 'big three'
For the sake of peace Qatar to turn over or expel those who live there and are funding Hamas.

And go about it that way.

You might find this article an interesting read; it’s rather lengthy but it’s essentially talking about how Israel has a right to respond, but that it cannot itself ignore the laws and moral codes governing warfare during its response, and it has suggestions from a wide range of experts (including Israeli and Palestinian) about how they think Israel should have responded instead.

It was written on 20th October so unfortunately much of what was warned about in the article has come about, but I feel like it’s still not too late for them to switch tactics. I cannot fathom how Israel can effectively say they have destroyed Hamas unless they kill the entire population of Gaza, which is unthinkable and horrifying to even consider!

https://www.vox.com/2023/10/20/23919946/israel-hamas-war-gaza-palestine-ground-invasion-strategy

@SomeCatFromJapan don't want to derail this thread so maybe we can discuss or should I say debate it further another time on a different thread 😊

@EllaDisenchanted thank you

@Parkingt111 seen nothing beyond same list as @efacsen

I've said this before but I think Israel are in an impossible situation. How do you fight Hamas when they are so embedded in, and to whatever extend supported by a civilian population, and one in a densely populated area? You can't, without killing civilians, probably many civilians.
But how can you not, if by not doing so it is your civilians that will then be killed?

I don't pretend to have an answer, beyond putting the onus on Iran to stop financially supporting Hamas, and Qatar to stop hosting their leaders.

@Kaffeebitte I agree with you. I think from statements we have seen since the war most governments are alarmed or at the least extremely concerned by the way Israel has carried out this war. Not the war itself but the way it has been conducted
I also don't think it will achieve the goals they want to

@CatLoaf why do you think he is minimising? Is it lack of knowledge?

Although it seems talks had stopped today and mossad were called backed to Israel today, I did see that Macron was going to travel to Qatar

Has anyone seen further updates on any of the hostages? Apart from what @efacsen posted this morning I haven't come across anything else

@Kaffeebitte i don't know what the answer is.
I am not making excuses. I just don't know.

@Stomacharmeleon i agree but I don’t think that the Israeli Govt will achieve it by their current actions. Not a chance. And nothing, nothing, excuses the mass slaughter of thousands of innocent civilians .

@Kaffeebitte that's how I feel. But the common denominator is Hamas which refocuses me.
They don't want peace or a two state solution. They don't want Gaza to survive or move on. They want all Jews dead and will use every available angle to get what they want.
And for all the Complaints on here and emotive diatribes I think most governments get it. Because to let Hamas win and succeed is the failure of mankind. War is horrible and unpalatable and we are fighting with a different rule book but it has to be done.
We all know the brutality of Hamas. They do have to be stopped

This is such a helpful post, honestly. I need to remember the suffering on both sides - it's ALL horrendous as you say.

I feel so hopeless about any solution though, the hate goes so deep.

I think a pp said that the Hamas attacks made them feel such despair at humanity. I completely agree. How can this happen, I just can’t fathom. I know the history and I know the forces that have created it but none of us can ever understand the evil behind the massacres .

For me it’s all absolutely horrendously awful. I feel for everyone caught up in it - all the families and people who have had their lives changed over night , on both sides. Most people just go about their lives - yes the crowds at the releases were awful but that’s not most of the population , most of the population just live their lives. Look at the fascists here at the Cenotaph, you get awful people everywhere who form mobs.

Just so many broken lives, and the reasons behind it go back centuries. It seems impossible to stop.

Many do. I've come across so many apologists for Hamas. But ....

What Hamas did is barbaric and they will do it again. They were filming themselves enjoying themselves like it was a party whilst butchering people and shouting God is Great. Vile, sick creatures.

Sending 💐

I've just had a huge argument with DH about the conflict, and feel horrible. I could hear him minimising the suffering of those attacked and October 7th, and I can't bear it.

Israel have pulled out of hostage/ceasefire negotiations in Qatar stating 'impasse'

BBC

I think you can't underestimate the psychological trauma of the victims and we will probably never know truly what they went through during captivity. This is possibly a good thing as I guess those held maybe wish their experience to be private but I think there has to be the assumption that they were not 'well kept' at all. A lot of the released looked broken to me.

What will mar any celebration of release is the fact there will be months or years of therapy ahead.

These are the 7 people confirmed dead yesterday

Eliyahu Margalit
Mia Goren
Ronen Engel
Aryeh Zalmanovich
Ofra Keider
Guy Iluz
Ofir Tzarfati

Sadly this isn't unknown - Russian troops invading Ukraine do the same booby-trapping bodies of soldiers and civilians

Someone working towards and hoping for peace taken. A gentle, kind, woman.

I imagine seeing the way the hostages were dragged around and treated, some would have died.

The names are now all appearing as 'dead'. Now that they appeared to run out if living hostages there are lots to be accounted for still.

Hamas have to go, otherwise they will repeat again and again as their leaders state.

I heard that, too. I guess we might never know.

Naama Levy, age 19.

She took part in a 'Hands of Peace' project that brought together American, Israeli and Palestinian children. She had just begun her military service.

https://www.bring-naama-levy-home.org/naama-s-story

@localnotail I must admit I heard (at the beginning of the conflict) that Hamas had booby trapped bodies from the massacre and left them within sight of the IDF before the ground invasion.

Another one who has been thinking about the girl in the blood stained joggers. Does anyone know her identity? It’s also hard to see how old she is, assuming over 18?

i hope the men are all still alive but I fear they aren’t.