The JC: Sacha Baron Cohen says ‘Tiktok is creating the biggest antisemitic movement since the Nazis‘

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Oh good grief. That was satire...the whole point of that film was to lure people into revealing their own bigotry and racism. He said that to see if people would agree with him and sadly, yes they did. 🙄

Realifelurker just be clear about what you are criticising.

Israel = a country full of people with varying views?

The Israeli government?

Zionism = a belief that Jews have the right to live in their own state.? Doesn't mean they agree with Israeli government, or are anti Palestinian rights.

Jews = an ethnoreligion comprising people with varying views on anything and everything. Not all rich, white or European.

Judaism = the religion of (some) Jewish people.?

Easy if you remember it's like the differences between Arab, Palestinian, Muslim, Islam, Gaza, Jihadism.

So, antisemitic: zionism = nazism, Israel is white settler colonialism, Jews should go back to where they came from, Jews need to decide whose side they're on, Israelis are aping Hitler.

Not antsemitic: Netanyahu should be in fucking prison, Netanyahu and Hamas need each other, settlers currently attacking Palestinians are evil, we still need a two state solution.

I completely agree OP. I don't think I've ever seen anything like it.

To put it into context, if any other ethnic group said that certain terms or phrases were deeply offensive to them, then the rest of the world (rightly) honours that.

If Jewish people say 'from the river to the sea is deeply offensive', the response is, 'well, maybe people don't mean it the way you think'.
^
It's a completely different standard for Jewish people.
^

I think if you say the Israeli government, leaders or policies that is the same as you would with any other country. Therefore not antisemitism. People may question if you have come to your thought out of prejudice but that happens in any debate.

You don't say France or the French are racist when it is Macron or government actions you have a problem with. So apply the same rules to Israel, Israelis and Jewish people in general. It really is that simple.

Are we allowed to criticise Israel rather than Zionism per se?

Sorry, OuiOui.

I was out and had a couple of glasses of wine. Osama won't approve.

Personally I like to listen to the great experts on Prejudice and Racism about these things. Only people I know that think antizionism and antisemitism are different don't seem to know what Zionism actually is. Jews have been Zionists for hundreds of years. Protesters seem to mix up Zionism with political Zionism. More than 80% of Jews are Zionists so that a pretty bad thing to not understand.

What would a more appropriate board be?

Telly Addicts?

Sorry, quoted the wrong poster.

That was to KittyOuipui.

The issue of free speech and TikTok is very interesting because Chinese-owned TikTok in China is completely different from TikTok in the West. China has created the perfect junk-food mind parasite to indoctrinate Western audiences.

Osama bin Laden thought that Afghanistan under the Taliban was the only true Islamic country. His new fans on TikTok might want to remember the images of thousands of Afghans desperate to leave the country when the Americans withdrew, or the Afghan women and girls murdered in the days afterwards (some beheaded) because they had dared to be political campaigners or to play sport. Maybe they are like the awful Yanis Varoufakis with his 'Hang on in there, sisters!' message to Afghan women, because anti-Westernism is so desirable that a few women being brutally murdered is a price he is willing to pay for it. Honestly, I'd like to take some of these people and drop them in Gaza or Afghanistan or Iran and see how they get on.

The rise in antisemitism has been there for a long time and we all know which directions it comes from.

The current conflict has just ripped the mask off and now we see it more clearly.

It seems like some people conflate being pro Palestine or anti Zionist with antisemitism

Oh here we go again

Unfortunately it is much the same thing with a fair few protesters and pro Palestine people

"There's a Jew? GET HIM!!!"

https://twitter.com/HaydenHewitt/status/1725960414654030022

It seems like some people conflate being pro Palestine or anti Zionist with antisemitism.

If you find it distasteful, you're perfectly free to not read it.

No you are thinking of Lior Narkis

The party that looks like fun was with Avihu Pinkasov

Lior Narkis' lyrics actually call the geographical place of Gaza a whore, not the women of Gaza.

Still not ideal or befitting, but then nor is a lot of rap music either.

I find you get into an echo chamber with Twitter- I only get shown tweets that mirror what I like- probably the same with TikTok?

It’s only when you start to read comments to the original tweet that you get opposing views. I can imagine some of those can be hurtful.

However- it does allow you to see how others think, rather than continuing to reinforce your own views - so difficult to know whether to read or not?

I don’t think honestly in a democratic country you can expect to avoid the comment that criticising Israel doesn’t mean you’re antisemitic, as that’s a reasonable belief many will have? Just as you’re not pro Hamas if you’re pro peace.

OuiOuikitty is on those too

Nothing to do with what he said or the thread

Sure others have already told you that but seriously!

Eg This is an informative report from the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation in 2021, on the way social media has been used for "youth-on-youth radicalisation" by groups formed since 2018.

“We are Generation Terror!”: Youth‐on‐youth Radicalisation in Extreme‐right Youth Groups
https://icsr.info/2021/12/14/we-are-generation-terror-youth%E2%80%91on%E2%80%91youth-radicalisation-in-extreme%E2%80%91right-youth-groups/

There's been a ramping up of antisemitism over the last few years (maybe decade), OuiOuiKitty. Definitely not limited to since 7 Oct, and what I have seen has been coming from sources that couldn't give a shiny shit about the sufferings of Palestinians – in fact, the same sources often also indulge in Islamophobia.

I'm no expert (nor Jewish) but have been keeping a broad weather eye.

My posts were deleted. Presumably because I said that the rise in antisemitism is directly linked to the curren conflict, the Israeli flag containing the star of David and the Israeli flag becoming associated with attempted genocide and ethnic cleansing. That pretending like it is a coincidence is absurd.

My question is why was this post posted here on this board if it has nothing to do with the current conflict? Is there not a more appropriate board to post it on rather than trying to centre people that have nothing to do with the current conflict on this board? I actually find it really distasteful tbh.

Of course he's right. I feel besieged my the antisemitism on Twitter right now - is it new, or was it always there but is suddenly avalanching on me because I am Jewish/have an interest in Jewish issues?

I would love to read just one thread like this that didn't have someone bleating that they're not allowed to criticise Israel without being accused of antisemitism. Ditto the posters saying well, we're only seeing antisemitism because of how Israel is behaving. I'll bet most of these people (rightly) were protesting Muslims aren't collectively guilty in the wake of 9/11.