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Conflict in the Middle East

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Original poster

"Fact or Fiction: Israel needs fake nurses to justify killing Gaza babies" (Opinion Piece)

108 replies

Ohlalalalala · 17/11/2023 09:40

I posted this article earlier on a thread about misinformation, but thought it important enough to warrant having its own thread as it can help people not familiar with media studies and the intricacies of information warfare to understand better the current events.

It's a very interesting, long and detailed analysis by the academic Dr Marc Owen Jones, about what's happening right now in Gaza.

I find that the author explains excellently well how Israel is trying to keep control of the false narrative regarding Gaza and Palestine in general. I urge anyone interested to read the whole piece as I copied parts only of the analysis.

May I kindly ask anyone not to derail the thread and to keep the discussion respectful. Please report any offensive posts to @MNHQ.

Fact or Fiction: Israel needs fake nurses to justify killing Gaza babies

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2023/11/17/fact-or-fiction-israel-needs-fake-nurses-to-justify-killing-gaza-babies

Here are some excerpts (highlights mine):

Israel knows it risks losing global support over its slaughter of children. So it’s turning to social media disinformation that’s sloppy but often effective.

In Gaza, a child is killed every 10 minutes. Since October 7, Israel has killed more than 4,000 children. Now, premature babies at Gaza’s al-Shifa Hospital are dying because the institution is out of power after over a month of Israel’s siege, and so is unable to operate incubators.

Israel knows it risks losing international support for its ongoing slaughter of children.

As a result, Israel’s propaganda and disinformation machine is finding new ways to justify the killing of children and the bombing of medical facilities.

Usually, Israel’s first response to accusations of atrocities is denial. When that fails, the second strategy is to blame Hamas or other Palestinian armed groups for Palestinian deaths.

It hasn’t given up on those strategies, but is also trying to directly link Palestinian children to Hamas, and thereby seek to portray them – and the places where they are sheltering – as legitimate targets.

Fact or Fiction: Israel needs fake nurses to justify killing Gaza babies

Israel knows it’s losing global support over its slaughter of children. Enter social media disinformation.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2023/11/17/fact-or-fiction-israel-needs-fake-nurses-to-justify-killing-gaza-babies

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Original poster
Ohlalalalala · 18/11/2023 08:35

Ratsoffasinkingsauage · 18/11/2023 08:15

No one will know what is true or not until all the dust settles. It is wise to reserve judgement u til all the facts are laid bare by objective witnesses.

War is hell and shouldn’t happen. I hope after this ends everything is investigated throughly- much like it was after the Bosnian war- and everyone who was involved is held to account fairly. Everyone, no matter their race, ethnicity, political leanings or religion. I currently suspect that won’t happen because the bias on both sides is so huge that it can only dehumanise the other.

I am sickened by social media these days. Sickened by the hate disguised as moral crusading. And quite frankly sickened by the leering gore porn being spread so liberally around in the name of truth by people who consider themselves a moral good. It is utterly gross.

Choose love, not hate, if you want an end to all war.

It is crystal clear what's happening. This is not new. Palestinians have been suffering for over 75 years. Do you want us to stay silent and wait patiently for the genociders to finish their work?

No way! Silence is complicity.

I am not Palestinian. I am not a leftist. I am a human being who is watching with horror what's happening in total impunity. I've never felt such deep contempt for most of the world's "leaders". I despise them wholeheartedly for selling their souls.

OP posts:
Ratsoffasinkingsauage · 18/11/2023 08:15

No one will know what is true or not until all the dust settles. It is wise to reserve judgement u til all the facts are laid bare by objective witnesses.

War is hell and shouldn’t happen. I hope after this ends everything is investigated throughly- much like it was after the Bosnian war- and everyone who was involved is held to account fairly. Everyone, no matter their race, ethnicity, political leanings or religion. I currently suspect that won’t happen because the bias on both sides is so huge that it can only dehumanise the other.

I am sickened by social media these days. Sickened by the hate disguised as moral crusading. And quite frankly sickened by the leering gore porn being spread so liberally around in the name of truth by people who consider themselves a moral good. It is utterly gross.

Choose love, not hate, if you want an end to all war.

Original poster
Ohlalalalala · 18/11/2023 08:08

Chaitales · 18/11/2023 05:56

Surely the fact that

  • Israeli actresses dressing up as Palestinian nurses to blame hamas
  • looking at calendars and presenting as evidence of murder planning
  • planting fake guns in mri rooms
  • presenting Norwegian tunnels as hamas

Is manipulation by Israelis to justify an abhorrent war they conducted to get land and move a population by pretending its for a justified cause? Why are you blaming OP for a post instead of spending some time thinking about the army that's just killed over 10,000 people and made a million homeless and then planted lies about them? Would you have blamed the people writing about the holocaust or the holocaust perpetrators themselves?

Show quote history

They know, you know, I know. Everybody knows at this stage.

Ad Hominem

OP posts:
Original poster
Ohlalalalala · 18/11/2023 07:59

roarrfeckingroar · 18/11/2023 00:34

Op; "I'm annoyed everyone doesn't ageee with me so here's a manipulated account of lies to pretend Israel is at fault"

Thank you for summing up Israel's modus operandi.

I am not pretending; I am stating the obvious.

By now anyone not living in a cave, and having a functioning brain cell can see clearly what's happening in Gaza and Palestinein general.

Arabs have a popular idiom "it's a goat, even if it flies!".

"It's what you say when you see someone is insisting on something wrong, despite all evidence and common sense contradicting them.

They fight tooth and nail to be right, ignore all proof, bend all reality, twist all words, close their eyes, plug their ears, and shout at the top of their lungs to hold on to their mistaken view."

This article explains it well:

https://www.arabnews.com/columns/news/884366

It’s a goat, even if it flies!

One day, two men were talking together. They spot something far away, the first man said, “It’s a goat.” The second one said, “It’s a crow.” They kept walking and discovered a feature of that creature: It’s black. The first may again said, “It’s a goat...

https://www.arabnews.com/columns/news/884366

OP posts:
SilverBranchGoldenPears · 18/11/2023 06:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Chaitales · 18/11/2023 05:56

roarrfeckingroar · 18/11/2023 00:34

Op; "I'm annoyed everyone doesn't ageee with me so here's a manipulated account of lies to pretend Israel is at fault"

Surely the fact that

  • Israeli actresses dressing up as Palestinian nurses to blame hamas
  • looking at calendars and presenting as evidence of murder planning
  • planting fake guns in mri rooms
  • presenting Norwegian tunnels as hamas

Is manipulation by Israelis to justify an abhorrent war they conducted to get land and move a population by pretending its for a justified cause? Why are you blaming OP for a post instead of spending some time thinking about the army that's just killed over 10,000 people and made a million homeless and then planted lies about them? Would you have blamed the people writing about the holocaust or the holocaust perpetrators themselves?

Happyvalleyfan · 18/11/2023 05:31

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

roarrfeckingroar · 18/11/2023 00:40

Such bullshit repeated on these threads

"Genocide" - no single race is being targeted

"Ethnic cleansing" - no single race is being targeted

roarrfeckingroar · 18/11/2023 00:34

Op; "I'm annoyed everyone doesn't ageee with me so here's a manipulated account of lies to pretend Israel is at fault"

Chaitales · 18/11/2023 00:29

PurpleCrocs3 · 17/11/2023 18:31

@Weddingpuzzle I don't think they're blinded by rage at all. I think they've been waiting for the opportunity to ethnically cleanse Gaza and October 7th gave them the perfect excuse.

Agree completely. This is just a land grab for more territory and power, that's it.

Surplus2requirements · 17/11/2023 22:45

I'd like to draw attention to importance of the words we use.

There is a big difference between Israel and Netenyahu/Ben-Gvir, the actions of the IDF and Israelis or Jews just as there is between Hamas, Palestinians, Muslims.

There is a lot of propaganda/misinformation flowing both ways and a Western world population so disillusioned that they dont care what confirmation bias means and think alternative facts is an acceptable thing to say out loud.

notsoready4school · 17/11/2023 22:20

PurpleCrocs3 · 17/11/2023 15:59

At this point people who believe the propaganda either have zero critical thinking skills or they're being wilfully ignorant.

Show quote history

Seriously, some of it would just insult most people intelligence. I think it would actually make me angry if such little effort was made to keep my loyalty and make it easier for me to fight for it

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 17/11/2023 21:29

PurpleCrocs3 · 17/11/2023 18:31

@Weddingpuzzle I don't think they're blinded by rage at all. I think they've been waiting for the opportunity to ethnically cleanse Gaza and October 7th gave them the perfect excuse.

Definitely. Everything they have done so far would suggest that.

OP posts:
Original poster
Ohlalalalala · 17/11/2023 18:50

PurpleCrocs3 · 17/11/2023 18:31

@Weddingpuzzle I don't think they're blinded by rage at all. I think they've been waiting for the opportunity to ethnically cleanse Gaza and October 7th gave them the perfect excuse.

Agreed. That's clear.
Governments are not "one person" to be blinded by rage. Governments have strategies. Plans.
It's not as if there was no precedent of atrocities.

OP posts:
Freysimo · 17/11/2023 18:33

PurpleCrocs3 · 17/11/2023 18:31

@Weddingpuzzle I don't think they're blinded by rage at all. I think they've been waiting for the opportunity to ethnically cleanse Gaza and October 7th gave them the perfect excuse.

What do you think was the rationale behind the Hamas attack on October 7? I don't understand this.

PurpleCrocs3 · 17/11/2023 18:31

@Weddingpuzzle I don't think they're blinded by rage at all. I think they've been waiting for the opportunity to ethnically cleanse Gaza and October 7th gave them the perfect excuse.

Weddingpuzzle · 17/11/2023 17:03

Israel's response has played right into Hamas (and their backers) hands. Both in actual warfare and social media propaganda. Hamas wanted the Arab world to see Israel's response - so that the Arab world does not go ahead with normalising relations with Israel (as Saudi seemed to want to).

Why Israel couldn't think through a less lethal, less blinded by rage strategy is beyond me. They have the military and intelligence capabilities. They have democratic process. They are meant to be an educated government. What the hell are they doing? The laughable amateur propaganda, the confused and odd comms - Hamas are winning the propaganda war hands down. Israel have been caught on the back foot not only on 7th Oct but in the social media 'war' too. It's embarrassing. October 7th was embarrassing. They are killing thousands of Palestinian citizens and Hamas are rubbing their hands with glee as this was baked into their plan - attack, retreat and let the enemy show their cards. Hamas leaders, sat comfortably outside Gaza (and gaslighting their people with the promise of martyrdom) must be cock a hoop about Israel's fall from international grace. I've seen lots of sympathetic to Israel people ask 'What is Israel meant to do?' - not make themselves look both cruel (very, very cruel) and incredibly stupid at the same time. On defence, during attack, in intelligence. They have failed on everything. I feel as sorry for Israeli citizens as I do for Palestinian citizens. Zero plan or respect for the people who chose them to govern. It's a complete shitshow.

Original poster
Ohlalalalala · 17/11/2023 16:51

I like to think that there are people who do not know what's really going on in Gaza and Palestine in general. That there are people who are so used to consuming the mass media's/ government's propaganda (sometimes so subtle you can't detect it easily) that they do not question it.

That said, I appreciate that @PurpleCrocs3 and @notsoready4school are right too.

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PurpleCrocs3 · 17/11/2023 15:59

HaveALaff · 17/11/2023 15:45

It's really shocking ... I wonder how many people fall for this propaganda. :/

At this point people who believe the propaganda either have zero critical thinking skills or they're being wilfully ignorant.

whatswrongwiththeworldddd · 17/11/2023 15:54

There's a few in my thread about misinformation. I have actually asked them as I'd like to know why.

HaveALaff · 17/11/2023 15:45

It's really shocking ... I wonder how many people fall for this propaganda. :/

Original poster
Ohlalalalala · 17/11/2023 14:49

Thanks 😊

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