Documenting Israeli army racism and torture

Those are some very sweeping statements, @notsoready4school!

I think the narrative is suggesting that Israeli Jews have a concept of supremacy. I suspect most Gazans rich and poor are in the same predicament now so quite equal whether they are female, gay etc. All just want to have access to food, water, shelter, survival, medical attention etc

Rightly or wrongly most people in Gaza prior to this were mostly concerned about food security, access to water, jobs given Israel’s blockade and had not paid enough attention to gay rights and women’s equality.

Also ... Israel are the oppressor of those living in Gaza. So ofcourse a Palestinian will have negative views of those allowing the oppression of them. This poll is also about Arabs living in Israel not Palestine. I think the results would be worse if it was about those in Gaza.

The first statement isn't to do with Palestinians. It is to do with non-jews.

Be interesting to see similar polls of views in Gaza. How tolerant and enlightened would you expect them to be?

But that wouldn't feed into your narrative about Jews being monsters.

A 13 year old imprisoned and in solitary confinement since Nov 2021

Torture and other ill-treatment

Israeli forces continued to subject Palestinian detainees to torture and other ill-treatment. As in previous years, the internal investigation unit of the police, Mahash, failed to properly investigate complaints of torture. On 24 November, the Beersheba District Court extended, by four months, the solitary confinement of Ahmad Manasra, imprisoned as a 13-year-old in 2015 and held in solitary confinement since November 2021, an act that amounts to torture. The same court had rejected in September his appeal for early release on medical grounds despite his severe mental health condition.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

"Over half of respondents said they agreed to some extent with the statement: “Most Jews are better than most non-Jews because they were born Jews.” Another 17% said they thought statement was not “totally true,” while 20% rejected it completely. "

"Another 88% of respondents said they would be disturbed to some degree if their son were to befriend an Arab girl. The number climbed to 90% when respondents were asked about their daughter befriending an Arab boy."

"Some 37% of respondents said they were either “somewhat disturbed” or “very disturbed” by the fact that half the pharmacists in Israel are Arabs.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/new-poll-shows-strong-anti-arab-sentiment-among-israeli-jews/

Right to truth, justice and reparation

Israeli authorities continued to refuse to cooperate with the investigation by the ICC Office of the Prosecutor, despite a 2021 decision by the ICC to initiate an investigation into the situation in Palestine. The authorities also failed to adequately investigate violations and crimes under international law.

@Pizdietz No civilian deaths are ok on either side.

Please don't forget many of the Palestinian deaths represent innocent civilians killed in the West Bank, outside of war time.

Just one example here:

Israeli forces killed 151 Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and injured 9,875, according to OCHA-OPT, amid a surge of military incursions that involved excessive use of force, including unlawful killings and apparent extrajudicial executions.4

Defense for Children International-Palestine reported that Israeli forces or settlers killed 36 children across the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

It's a war, not the Eurovision Song Contest! A bloody, medieval war in response to terrorist atrocities that belong to the Dark Ages.

The "figures are wild" for many reasons, the Iron Dome being the most obvious.

Absolutely no civilian deaths are ok - Israeli or Palestinian, both are a tragedy.

But the figures are wild. And those saying they don't understand why people are sticking up for Palestinians, maybe these figures might help explain why people are upset and posting on their behalf.

Yet we still hear "it's self defence!" and those saying so genuinely seem to believe it. I feel like a broken record but it's atrocious that in this day and age genocide is allowed to happen with no meaningful intervention. Should Netanyahu and Co be tried at the Hague? Absolutely. But that's too late for the Palestinians who have been and will be killed by his government and the IDF.

Interesting civilian casualty comparison video.

Figures below.

From 2008 to 2023,

Palestinian civilian casualties = 161,967

Israeli civilian casualties = 6615

https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/17zj07u/civilian_casualty_comparison_palestine_israel/

I created an account at the weekend just because I'm fed up of seeing all the bullying and harassment on here from people claiming to be pro-Palestinian but ooooohhhh, no, never antisemitic, of course not! Just keep creating thread after thread after thread ridiculing Israel from every possible angle and taunting anyone who sympathises with Israel's duty to defend itself (and possibly us) against inhuman atrocities. And then pretending that anything the IDF has done has ever been on the same scale as the revolting Islamofascist terrorism unfolding right before our eyes, literally, because the stupid fuckers filmed themselves doing it, and got a hero's welcome back home!

Even if those accounts are being created for that reason, that's their perogative. You ARE trying to police other people's alternative opinions. No amount of people telling you they do not condone Israel's excessive actions will satisfy you. Those who don't overtly say it, conduct their counter arguments in an informed manner. Nobody but nobody wants to see civilians, especially children, being killed. It is horrifying to anybody with compassion and humanity.

You misunderstood my comment. I don’t decide who posts what. But I’m fed up of new accounts coming to these threads calling those that have been in them for a long time antisemitism and pro Hamas. It becomes really boring and feels like some accounts are only created to agitate the threads and derail them so people get fed up of writing on them.

this thread is about Israel’s tortures on Palestinians. Not sure why someone would approve this. I certainly don’t and I’m sure that those that are pro Palestinian really reject what Hamas did on 7oct. Unfortunately not many of those that are pro Israel will criticised Israel’s tortures even when they’re proven real.

This documentary is two years old and gives insight into the targeting and torture of Palestinian children. It goes without saying that it contains distressing scenes.

https://twitter.com/YehudaShaul/status/1722948435320442960

[1] BREAKING: Now in Tuba (Masafer Yatta, Firing Zone 918) Settlers accompanied by soldiers arrived at the village, opened water tanks of the Awad Family and emptied them to the ground.

Who are you to decide who gets to post on this board? Posters don't have to have your personal approval. I can't sleep at the minute but hey, guess that means I am a "new weekend account" who is out to cause you discomfort. Get a grip.

Journalist Shireen Abu Akleh was killed by the IDF.

The killing of Shireen Abu Akleh: what one morning in the West Bank reveals about the occupation

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2023/mar/21/the-killing-of-shireen-abu-akleh-what-one-morning-in-the-west-bank-reveals-about-the-occupation

And also, Israeli forces destroyed a memorial dedicated to her memory.

Israeli forces destroyed a memorial to Al Jazeera journalist Shireen Abu Akleh, a journalist killed by an IDF member in 2022.

Once, when I was on reserves duty, some guy was throwing stones and was arrested. I don’t remember whether we arrested him or someone else did. He was arrested soon after he’d thrown stones nearby. He was a boy from Ya’bad village, just a boy. Two-three days later, our mission was to harass civilians there, to go to his parents’ house and tell them: Your child was arrested for throwing stones, make sure it doesn’t happen again. And that’s what we did. We came at night, and a representative of the [Israeli] Civil Administration knocked on the door, spoke with his parents, and spoke to his brother, who was a Palestinian Authority man. They didn’t even know he’d been arrested, they’d had no idea where he was for three days. That’s what I know.

How old was he, do you remember?
I think he was 14-15 years old.
And the family was just told that he’d been arrested for that, then they were scolded a bit, and then you just left?
There was no purpose beyond that. I don’t remember the actual wording of the mission’s purpose, but in the briefings beforehand, we were told that the purpose was to punish them a bit, to motivate them to make sure that their children don’t do it again. That was the reasoning behind those house entries. It felt uncomfortable. Waking everyone up there. The approach was didactic, in that sense. To educate them to educate their child.

https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/database/423535

And top marks there for your critical thinking skills. What a response 🤦‍♀️ what is it with posters saying you lack critical thinking skills when they are stumped for a reply or response.
Trying to have a conversation with the pro Israeli posters on mumsnet is no different to the many interviews conducted with Israeli government officials. Check this guys critical thinking skills out! His responses, when the interviewer exposes their propaganda remind me of my 10 year old when he gets caught lying. That’s how a lot of the pro Israeli posters sound like on here 🤦‍♀️change the record.
Seriously, doesn’t matter how much evidence you put forward it’s like they just don’t have the intelligence to understand that their lies have been exposed. Wonder when and if the penny will finally drop?

"The women-combatants, in particular, were doing the slapping. There were two of them who really enjoyed hitting out. But the guys, too, had no problem slapping women. If she would scream they would go: shut up! and slap her. It was routine violence there. "

https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/database/41810

Reading another testimony from an IDF soldier from break the silence:

During the entire operation the [tank] drivers had this thing of wanting to run over cars – because the driver, he can’t fire. He doesn’t have any weapon, he doesn’t get to experience the fun in its entirety, he just drives forward, backward, right, left. And they had this sort of crazy urge to run over a car. I mean, a car that’s in the street, a Palestinian car, obviously.

Holding Israel to a higher standard than other countries is antisemitism.

Haven’t you seen the marches in the USA, the U.K. and Europe holding those governments into account for supporting and arming Israel? That means holding our governments to account too.

Israel is seen as part of the Western ‘free’ world and a place where people from the USA, Britain, Europe, Russia, people from among all of us go to live. No one can understand why such people, think it is ok to bomb civilians.

Do you want Israel to be thought if as just another Putin-like governed place? …. held to the same account? Assad-like governed? Held to the same account as these?

Many people in the U.K. considered Iraq to have been a crime. Many people marched against it. We weren’t even seeing the killings in real time like we are now.

Quite a few people here still think of this region as The Holy Land.

Netanyahu and the others in the current State of Israel, together with allies (U.S.A etc)who are prosecuting this war are actually creating anti-semetism against innocent Jewish people everywhere including in the diaspora who would not want any of this done in their name.