Shocked by the racist signs at marches

When I visited the area around 14 years ago. We learned that life was Liberal, very tolerant, and all religions lived side by side. As for Iran, life was Liberal there too. Just to throw in another country Libya, was fine until Cameron lied, and got involved. Been there too, and learned a lot. but the fact remains many people were happy and just wanted to be left along. fact all these countries were fine until the western ones got involved. US and UK. Our guide was a Christian, not a Muslim and very experienced, and knowledgeable. Very articulate in English. I think you'll find the hand of the western government have played their parts in many things. I'm European by way, and a christian. Just saying there is a lot of ignorance being thrown around.

There is no legal requirement for Palestinian women to wear the hijab. Many do not wear the hijab, especially the Christian ones.

Unless another extremist Islamic group took over Gazens would probably not be like Iran without Hamas

When Hamas have tried to bring in laws about Hijab wearing or modest dress the Gazens have had protests and riots. This tells us that the majority will reject Taliban or Iranian type regimes

It does also shows that the Gazens are not totally helpless under Hamas. Which does raise a few questions regarding Gaza in general before this latest conflict but that is a different conversation.

I agree with this.

I cannot fathom how Israel can justify what they are doing. I cannot fathom why our governments are supporting it.

But equally I cannot understand the 'kill the jews' attitude from some on the other side. And they are definitely there amongst the marchers, however innocently the ceasefire majority are, they must see that they are marching alongside that hate speech.

What it all shows to me is how deeply entrenched the issues are, and that neither side is willing to acknowledge that they might possibly be part of the problem, it is always the other sides fault.

Perhaps not hate speech as that wasn’t your intent, your comment stems more from ignorance. You should read a bit about the Palestinian people and their governance before assuming all Muslim majority countries are the same as (insert worst one you can think of here).

The Palestinian Legislature has no law on the books that punishes apostasy or blasphemy with death.

The Palestinians have had and do have women leaders.

Dr Jilan Wahba Abdalmajid is the current ambassador to Ireland.

Hanan Ashwari was the official spokesperson of the Palestinian delegation at the Madrid Peace Conference of 1991 and was elected to the Palestinian Legislative Council as a representative of Jerusalem in 1996.

Vera Baboun was mayor of Bethlehem from 2012-2017.

Khalifa Jarrar is a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council and spearheaded their joining the ICC.

Intissar al-Wazir was the Social Affairs Minister of the State of Palestine from 1995 to 2005. Intissar al-Wazir is also credited with founding the General Union of Palestinian Women, which focuses on the economic, social, and legal status of women in Palestine.

Janet Mikhail was the first female mayor of Ramallah, a large Palestinian city in the West Bank.

Dr Jamila al-Shanti is a university lecturer and member of the Palestinian Legislative Council.

Mai al-Kaila is the current Minister of Health for the Palestinian Authority. Mai al-Kaila also served as the Palestinian Ambassador to Italy and to Chile between 2006 and 2019.

The Palestinian Legislative Council functions like our Parliament as it comprises of 132 elected members from Palestinian terratories. Unfortunately the Hamas coup in Gaza caused its functions to be suspended from 2007 until today.

So before Hamas reached power, they were indeed operating as a democracy with an elected legislative body that included women as elected representatives.

There is no reason why they would not return to this post Hamas.

Why on earth would you think the above when there is absolutely zero evidence for it? It comes from a place of your enormous privilege. Women would be free to go wherever they fancied in a 'free' Palestine? Really??

Yep both groups last weekend were disgusting and both need better policing. Else they need stopping from protesting. Either option is fine by me.

No room for nuance at all any more, I guess. It is quite possible to
acknowledge the right of Israel to exist
acknowledge the rise of Islamofascism
acknowledge the rise of anti-semitism
acknowledge that Hamas is a barbaric organisation which has zero interest in the Palestinian people, similar to many Arab states
and
still think that Israel is committing genocide! Without playing dumb.

The “reality of Islam”, eh?

Aaaand out come the racists…

You have literally been on threads discussing the antisemitism signs plus can just Google or read online media reports

Don't play dumb when we all seen your apologist posts on other threads

Just be honest about your own thoughts or feelings on the subject

Do you mean the EDL protestors at the Cenotaph? You’re right, they were disgusting. Thankfully, many were arrested.

Google antisemitic signs on marches or read media reports available online like the rest of us

You think posters don't know you are playing dumb

A friend of mine has lost his job because he called for a ceasefire. That is vile too.

Totally this

Are you referring to Hamas @LauraNorda? Are babies to be blamed for their actions and therefore to receive the same "ten times over."?

I don't really care what white saviours think of me, a brown atheist who does not believe in religion, Islamofascism or modesty clothing, but also does not believe that the way to eliminate it is to bomb Muslims out of existence.

Free Palestine is a very complicated concept, and I do not believe it will ever happen now, but I also do not believe the massacre of nearly 10,000 people, half of them children, is complicated.

Mass genocide is a favour? How vile!

I agree. It’s disgusting. Some parts of our society seem able to get away with racism, but soon complain at any slight against them. It’s terrible, but I think everyone is becoming more aware now.

I know. I saw the sign which said “no politician should stand with Israel” and thought that was fair enough. And a friend had to point out the swastika hidden in the Star of David at the top which I’d not noticed. Was really shocked. The woman holding the placard didn’t look like a right wing thug but there is she is marching down the street holding a swastika. Guess it shows that appearances are deceptive.

You know full well to whom I am referring.

Stop acting dumb or people might start to make assumptions about you.

I follow quite a few Palestinian women on TikTok and none of them wear a hijab. They seem to be free to do as they like. Wear T-shirts, drink coffee, hang at the beach with their friends. Well they did until Israel started bombing the shit out of them.

Yes, they're oppressed- by Israel who have them locked inside an open air prison.

It's seems a lot of posters who do nothing but express faux outrage about perceived antisemitism are quite happy to express Islamophobia.

It's news to me that premature babies in hospitals are able to lob bombs now.Are they "they"?

I know on MN that Israel is apparently the only country to be threatened with extermination by a terrorist group, but that isn't true. And no other country retaliates with mass massacre, except of course the United States.

Even in a 'free' Palestine, if they continue dedicate themselves to Israels extermination and to lob rockets into Israel, then they can expect to receive the same back, ten times over.

I can’t say I’m shocked you don’t recognize it as hate speech given that a number of your posts have been deleted for that reason.

let me break it down for you.

first there’s the statement around a “disconnect” between how “white middle class people” view Islam and the reality of it. The implication being that this class of people would have no idea what it really means to be Muslim or live under Islamic leadership because, apparently, only ignorant black and brown people follow Islam 🙄

There are nearly 2 billion Muslims on this planet. Guess what, some of those are also whiteand (shock horror!!) even middle class. Some white and middle class people also willingly choose to live in Muslim majority / countries with Islamic leadership. Crazy eh?

secondly it’s implied (quite condescendingly I might add) that the reality of Islam is oppression with a sweeping statement that Islamic leadership is all the same with no reference to the role that geopolitics, culture, nationality, history and foreign intervention etc. play into the leadership of the countries you’ve listed.

Finally as others have said, to the people of Palestine, ‘free Palestine’ means a country where mothers don’t have to choose on a daily basis if they leave their kids to die in a NICU without ventilators or to die by getting bombed and burned to death in their sleep.

Certainly bombing the shit oit of Gaza to "destroy" Hamas seems pointless to me. Hamas looks to me like a state of mind, that is fertilised with every falling bomb -both in Gaza, and in Hamas's sponsor states.

This
Hamas isn't a group of people you can kill and get rid of it is a state of mind an ideology. The baroness Sharmishta Chakrabarti, barrister and human rights activist was making that exact point on the bbc Sunday morning. Israel are just blowing to bits many innocent civilians in the guise of getting rid of Hamas but you can't kill an ideology... And yes I know there are hostages they need to free but I don't think their current game plan is close to achieving that

Isn't Hamas a creation of Israel though? In as much as if Israel didn't treat Palestinians as they do, the conditions for Hamas to flourish wouldn't be there (yes I know Hamas gets funding from outside, but the electoral support is Gazan.

And by exactly the same token, Hamas promotes the conditions for the Netanyahus and their ilk to flourish in Israel.

I saw a very interesting article somewhere a while back setting out how much the hawkish Israelis and Hamas need each other. Netanyahu has even explicitly said so apparently (to the extent that hamas divides Gaza from the West Bank politically, at least). They are locked together in a death spiral.

Certainly bombing the shit oit of Gaza to "destroy" Hamas seems pointless to me. Hamas looks to me like a state of mind, that is fertilised with every falling bomb -both in Gaza, and in Hamas's sponsor states.

Meanwhile of course, the actions of Hamas encourage nothing but unimaginable pain for Israelis and Gazans alike.

What a fucking mess.