Shocked by the racist signs at marches

Correct

People were falling over themselves to say that antisemitic placards weren't actually antisemitic when they blatantly are

Do you mean on the other thread? I can’t really comment as I didn’t read it all.
If people are that blatant then, yes, it’s obvious. I was talking more about people reading sinister meanings into more ambiguous statements.

Focusing on Israel’s mistakes is not necessarily sinister pro Hamas/antisemitic ploy any more than focusing on October 7 is an anti Palestinian/Islamophobic ploy.

Also it’s not just the Israelis who get the blame for Hamas. There was a poster on another thread who was trying to argue that it was Palestinian civilians who perpetrated a lot of the attacks on October 7 because the people in the video footage didn’t look like members of Hamas (weren’t wearing their headbands I guess)

People were falling over themselves to say that antisemitic placards weren't actually antisemitic when they blatantly are.

The big problem I see is that every time Jewish people post that their worries about the increase in anti- semitism, so many people try to shut us down. They say it's not happening. They say they don't see it. They don't believe us

People tend not to see an issue that doesn’t affect them directly. Like a man saying he’s never seen any sexual harassment happen. Maybe some people are trying to shut you down but I would imagine a lot are just oblivious.

The big problem I see is that every time Jewish people post that their worries about the increase in anti- semitism, so many people try to shut us down. They say it's not happening. They say they don't see it. They don't believe us.

Having a drink at the weekend is very different to going out at the weekend and waving a racist banner.

As for whether the fact that she didn't think she was being racist would wash, it didn't in the case of this politician

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jun/28/councillor-court-coconut-jibe-bristol

I’m seeing a lot more Islamophobia on these threads than antisemitism.

and my bug bear is the repetitive behaviour on multiple threads by other “bad faith actors” who consistently and baselessly accuse anyone with an opposing view or challenge they don’t like of being a “Jew hater” or “antisemite”. That one’s gotten really irritating too.

Yes, it does go both ways.

I think it is the nature of the thread that if people keep coming on saying they saw no signs or people spreading hate etc then people are going to mention again the ones that are most recent

Yes I can imagine other threads will have derailing too. That is the nature of the beast that is mumsnet. I suppose sometimes people may genuinely have a legitimate reason to remind posters of the pogrom. If for instance someone is acting like Israel randomly started the excullated the conflict in October.

So you’re saying that in both cases it’s the fault of the “other side”?

First the come on and act very like they are innocently asking a question. Then gradually it turns into them trying to work there way through various tropes about Jews behaviour. Then a what seems like a list of words that they believe will upset people. It gets predictable and boring after a bit.

I have honestly seen very little of this specific scenario.
Maybe you need to start applying Hanlon's razor a bit more.

and my bug bear is the repetitive behaviour on multiple threads by other “bad faith actors” who consistently and baselessly accuse anyone with an opposing view or challenge they don’t like of being a “Jew hater” or “antisemite”. That one’s gotten really irritating too.

This.

Plus the police are wanting to trace these fuckwits too

Also

That reminds me

I think it is the nature of the thread that if people keep coming on saying they saw no signs or people spreading hate etc then people are going to mention again the ones that are most recent. I mean we could all go back to the first couple of protests or the party in the streets after the pogrom in central London that some low lifes seem to have. However most people don't, it is just correcting in coming posts or a general discussion about how certain things made us feel or why they were wrong in case anyone doesn't understand

Also with people the police are still trying to trace someone like myself will show their image again. For obvious reasons

Yes I can imagine other threads will have derailing too. That is the nature of the beast that is mumsnet. I suppose sometimes people may genuinely have a legitimate reason to remind posters of the pogrom. If for instance someone is acting like Israel randomly started the excullated the conflict in October. However I am sure that can be used to change the subject on occasion or if someone is feeling emotional about what someone else has written. So like on these threads about antisemitism a certain amount of what seems like repetitive behaviour will happen.

I think my real bug bear with the repetitive thing is the pattern of behaviour we see from what are bad faith actors, as the saying goes. First the come on and act very like they are innocently asking a question. Then gradually it turns into them trying to work there way through various tropes about Jews behaviour. Then a what seems like a list of words that they believe will upset people. It gets predictable and boring after a bit. Also derailing the threads at the same time.

I just see it as they can't think of anything new to say

These threads are also pretty repetitive though. The men with the headbands and the other people from last weekends march have already been discussed on a few other threads so presumably “repetition” of a topic of discussion is allowed?

Also it’s not true that no-one ever attempts to derail a thread about Palestinians (usually with a few “so you don’t care about October 7?” “So you support Hamas” posts)

Thanks for sharing the article, although I think it describes a very different situation. The teacher at the protest did not use any racial term toward any student.

Anyway I'm not going to push this further - I'll leave you to it.

See another example of how parents of the same heritage as the teacher don't always agree with what is basically an racial slur. Schools don't like or agree with this type of behaviour both in class or outside of school.

https://www.caribbeannationalweekly.com/news/local-news/jamaican-teacher-in-miami-allegedly-calls-student-with-dreadlocks-a-racial-slur/

It isn't how professionally behaviour for teachers or school staff is viewed. In our contracts it normally states we must not behave in a way that discredit the school or us as educators. At least something along those lines I forget the exact wording

Also the school has to provide all staff members with training for things like anti radicalisation, safeguarding and racism. This is a legal requirement for school staff. She has had this training and then behaved in this way. Therefore is fully aware of the implications.

Most schools would sack her for far less than what she has done. For example if it was said and a couple of parents or staff overheard. Let alone standing there smiling for a photo and ending up in the world press

Think about it as similar to using the Y word for Jewish people. Yes some Jewishpeople may use for each other. However some Jewish people find offensive even then. Therefore a school or another professional organisation frown upon the usage, even by a Jewish person. It wouldn't be professional and could upset parents at the school. So likely to be stackable offense because it is not upholding the values of inclusion within the school and brings the school into disrepute.

I would take your point if the poster was something she presented in school, absolutely. But this was a march, not a school, and her poster was a specific reference to the political leadership and its attitude to both Gaza and towards that leadership's position on the rights of its citizens to protest. Having a beer at school would be unprofessional in education too, but we would not arrest a teacher for having a drink at the pub on a weekend.

I get where you see coming with that. Yes people often use certain words within their own community towards each other. However in this case she is a teacher and understands why this was wrong. If you work in a school in the UK you have certain types of compulsory training. She knew that sign was wrong and was aware she could get away with it via social media because people would make excuses for her such as you have done. Hopefully she will be sacked because this kind of behaviour is totally unacceptable and unprofessional in education.

I've heard South Asians use the term towards one another loads of times. I think there's a difference between people within the community using the word with each other, vs a white person using the term. And I believe that the woman on the march holding the coconut poster was South Asian herself so maybe she thought it was ok. Given the context, I don't think her poster is that big a deal - certainly not the same level as one with a swastica.

Why does it matter if you are white or not?

f you can’t defend the people of Palestine’s aspirations to statehood because these aspirations didn’t exist until 1948, then Ukraine has even less right to be independent from Russia as it didn’t exist as a sovereign state until 1991.

Going off on a tangent here...

That would be like arguing Brits had no right to vote for Brexit. (Idiots, yes).
Because, you know, the Normans and Vikings came in throughout history...
Lands have been conquered since time immemorial.

Anyway, I'm out. There needs to be a two-state solution. I hate any kind of prejudice whether it's black/white, catholic/protestant, jewish/arabic....

We are human beings.

Your fault Giraffe since you remembered me as Truly from covid my head has got to big.

Fancy the Giraffe remembering shy and quiet little old me😁

Appreciate your input on these threads I really do. It means a lot when non Jews speak up to point out things that are Jew hate or misinformation posted. I just more people would do the same.