Be aware of misinformation seen regarding Palestine

Oh you are wrong, there are definitely people who support what Hamas did.

I think people who call for a ceasefire from Israel while ignoring what Hamas did, or ignore the hostage situation are naive at best. We would all like the war in Gaza to stop, but you can't only make that demand to one side.

I'm still not sure what choice Israel has other than to go after Hamas, given the stated intention of Hamas to repeat the 7th October atrocities a million times, and that the people who committed those terrible atrocities have to see some sort of justice. That doesn't mean that I support what they are currently doing in Gaza.

I've heard that the IDF likely killed Israeli civilians in the fight against Hamas. I think this is true.

I've also seen people try to amplify the number of civilians killed by the IDF by making erroneous claims such as an Apache helicopter killed people fleeing the music festival.

I know that there's a certain type of person who would seek to maximise the number killed by the IDF while minimising those killed by Hamas. I've seen a lot of it on social media, and would be suspicious of the agenda of people who talk about these numbers.

Nobody supports what Hamas did noblegiraffe, however you have on threads stated’ oh but what choice has Israel got?’ You spend hours on here criticising people who are desperate for a ceasefire.

Nobody has said that. I think what @feralunderclass was saying is that it is all barbaric, what Hamas did, what Israel have done and continue to do. That she doesn't have a scale of barbarism like some people seem to where what Hamas did was the worst thing in the world and everything else fades to obscurity or is forgotten about.

Well the IDF do have blame. Are you denying that?

Can you actually answer the persons question?
Because I’m also interested to know now.

Oh the ones who instead of condemning what Hamas did as barbaric and instead seek to minimise what they did by denying rape or blaming the IDF give off those vibes.

Perhaps they could clarify.

Who has said what Hamas did isn't barbaric?

Is this how you lot think? Do you think the converse is true too? That you don't support what Israel is doing to civilians therefore you cannot think what Hamas did was shockingly and appallingly barbaric?

Is that why some of you seek to minimise what they did?

People like you , a teacher of all things supports what Isreal is doing to civilians. Absolutely shocking.

Gosh, does saying that the terrorist attack Hamas committed on 7th October couldn't have been more barbaric mean that I "support what Israel is doing to civilians"?

You've made a logic fail there, mate.

Noblegiraffe we can go on about what we find more barabaric and list things one by one but what is the point really. In terms of scale and length of time, Israel wins. What is absolutely horrific about the barbaric acts of the IDF is that USA and UK supports it and funds it whilst the rest of the world is in despair at the cruelty of it all. People like you , a teacher of all things supports what Isreal is doing to civilians. Absolutely shocking.

Yanis Varoufakis tweet. He has some interesting videos and viewpoints of the conflict, worth following on Twitter.

There were 764 civillians killed on 7/10, abot 50 of them were children with 14 being under 10 including 1 baby.

I doubt we will ever find out if the IDF were responsible for any of those deaths.

So now you're going to have to deal with the fact that a non-Jewish person has said that too.

I totally understand why people would say 'it couldn't have been more barbaric' because I have paid attention to the details of what happened.

It was an appalling, shocking, deliberate attack designed to be as disgusting and inhuman as possible. It couldn't have been more barbaric.

Could you please read the posts? I didn't say the issue was it being described as barbaric. Many have said "it couldn't have been more barbaric". It's certainly not a competition, and I'm not going to list ways in which I think it could have been more barbaric, but why is what one side does considered worse, when the other side has been doing even worse for years. Anyway I understand you are not Jewish, so it's not aimed at you.

I don't know.

However I suspect it would be quite illuminating to ask you how many you think were. How close to 100% do you think you reckon you can get it?

So your confusion about why the Hamas attack on Israel is being described as barbaric isn't because you think that it wasn't barbaric?

We're agreed that the attack was barbaric?

Oh I know what's happening, that isn't the point at all. I thought that was clear?
Some time ago there was a thread (might still be there, not sure) about a poster concerned about her Jewish born friend. He had never been religious, but since the attack had been acting "strangely", gave himself a Hebrew name, wanted to go to fight in Israel, you get the picture. Anyway, some posters were saying this was completely normal, as a Jewish person he has a deep connection with Israel, even if he's not religious. I was genuinely astounded, as the same posters were saying they couldn't understand why Palestinians were attached to their land, "it's only land!" 🙄. I questioned why a Jewish person was afforded capability of these feelings and Palestinians weren't (and again it was a genuine question). I didn't get a response, but a Jewish poster pmd me to say Jews believe a Jewish soul is in some ways superior to a non Jewish one, and that soul is there from before birth and remains, even if the person isn't religious.
Back to the "couldn't be more barbaric". Is this to do with the Jewish soul thing? Because it doesn't make sense that posters are saying Hamas' attack couldn't have been more barbaric, whilst defending Israel's actions over the last 75 years.
And apologies for the derail, this isn't something related to the conflict per se, so not really expecting an answer, but maybe some Jewish posters wouldn't mind talking about this at a later date.

Right and how many of these 1200 were killed by the IDF by their own admission? How many were soldiers?

I'm just wondering why there has been repeated mention of the barbarism

For someone who posts extensively on this topic, you seem remarkably unaware of the details of what happened on October 7th. Why is that?

There's nothing more barbaric about the 1200 deaths of Israelis than what has historically happened to Palestinians. I'm not disputing what happened, or minimizing it BTW, I'm just wondering why there has been repeated mention of the barbarism (and a quick Google reveals that word is used frequently used in headlines) when it has been happening for years?

WARNING: re Oct 7 carnage from Hamas’s brutal attack.

None of the hostages had limbs hanging off, or skulls cracked open

One mother saw her son on a Hamas video being taken hostage with half an arm gone ( shot or bombed off?)

On another thread I saw that a little girl was found alone bleeding to death with her hand off.

I think some skulls were cracked open.

And yes vicious raping before killing did happen.

… obviously can’t go on but I think there seems to be a great deal of information you seem not to have picked up about Oct 7.

Of course the suffering and carnage being caused by the Israeli bombing is extraordinarily high even if it does not involve one group of humans personally sadistically harming, torturing, raping and killing others or taking them ( even tiny children) hostage in tunnels - all with their own bare hands and own raging hate so to speak. The Israeli bombing (400 bombs a day?) makes it seem a less personal sort of killing at one removed.

Oh, are you specifically talking about the rapes? Take your Owen Jones sexual violence against women denying shit take out of this female-dominated website.

No they didn't.