Be aware of misinformation seen regarding Palestine

Except Israel handed over some prisoners then put a whole lot more in prison almost immediately

It's like you've all forgotten that there was a previous ceasefire where Hamas agreed to stop fighting and firing rockets as well as handing over some hostages and Israel agreed to stop fighting and bombing and handed over some prisoners.

Do you not remember that?

Yes, those Gazan children should force the Hamas leadership in Qatar to surrender. Otherwise they’re just asking for a good slaughtering.

Have you actually not read my post?

I still don’t know what you want as a concession Noblegiraffe?. For Israel to be able to strip down everyone in Gaza into their underwear and take them away for ‘interrogation’ without any fighting back?

How can there be concessions in both sides Noblegiraffe?

How can you not know? They literally just had a ceasefire where Hamas had to stop firing rockets into Israel and hand back hostages.

Are you unaware that there is actual fighting going on?

How can there be concessions in both sides Noblegiraffe? The Palestinian civilian population has literally nothing, no homes, no food or water and no healthcare. Israel want Hamas totally destroyed more than they want the hostages back so there is no negotiations there. The question is how long can the civilian population survive until Israel is satisfied? And why is the west funding this instead of trying to protect Palestinians from Israel. Why do we value Israeli lives more?

Wouldn't the best way to save the remaining hostages be for Hamas to hand them over? Where's the international pressure on Hamas to do that?

There was a ceasefire. Did Hamas hand all the hostages over? No, they refused to and the ceasefire ended.

Do I want Israel to stop bombing Gaza? Of course. But, calling for a one-sided ceasefire is just a facile sound bite. The situation is far more complicated than that. I would hope that there is lots of work and negotiations going on behind the scenes like there was before the previous ceasefire which involved concessions from both sides. I would like to think that there is pressure on Qatar to hand over the leaders of Hamas to face international justice, but I haven't heard anything about that.

I am sure you are right about amplifying deaths caused by the IDF, and even if there were deaths caused by own fire it would never have happened without the Hamas attack in the first place.

But Regev said in a television interview that they’d revised their figure of those killed by Hamas Oct 7 down by 200 because they realised 200 of the burned bodies were of Hamas terrorists. So there was some question about how they got burned when they were the ones doing the burning. Not that this mention of the 200 burned Hamas terrorists is conclusive of anything.

Then about the apache helicopters, there was a report with videos shown to be wrong because the videos were from a completely different place (Syria?), but there was this report from Haaretz by
Joshua (Josh) Breiner
November 18, 2023
Excerpt (my bold)
“There is a growing assessment in the security establishment that the terrorists who carried out the massacre on October 7 did not know in advance about the Nova festival held near Kibbutz Ra'im, and decided to come to the place after discovering that a mass event was taking place there. The security system's assessment relies, among other things, on the investigations of the terrorists and the investigation of the incident by the police, from which it appears that the terrorists intended to reach Kibbutz Ra'im and nearby kibbutzim. According to a police source, an investigation into the incident also revealed that an IDFcombat helicopter that arrived at the scene from the Ramat David base fired at the terrorists and apparently also hit some of the revelers who were there

I translated this from Hebrew using Google. It was never in English Haaretz.

@Livelovebehappy I do think you have misunderstood my original post that you objected to as the explanation you gave of what you thought I was saying is totally incorrect.

Where did I say all Palestinians? I said the ones who were cheering Hamas parading a naked murdered Israeli through the streets, by your narrative, weren’t brainwashed. Were they or weren’t they? Did they cheer (and there were many lining the streets) because they were afraid of Hamas, or were they doing it because they really agreed with what that poor girl had experienced and were therefore complicit in what happened to her?

Based on one thing you have seen you have branded all Palestinians as 'evil people'

Is there a word for this sort of rhetoric?

@ssd it was certainly a strange twist
I read my post again twice to see anything that was remotely similar to what the poster thought I meant

Its obvious what you were meaning @Parkingt111 .

But people with an agenda will always twist things to their advantage....

How can you make such a blanket statement about "Palestinians?". Do you think all the babies and children are evil people using their free will? They are Palestinians. You are really letting your anti-Pal mask slip.

Palestinians aren't being brainwashed, they are being murdered in their thousands.

@Livelovebehappy I wasn't saying that at all.
And I can't see how you came to that conclusion from my post either

If you’re saying that the Palestinians haven’t been brainwashed by Hamas, that’s very worrying, when you see the pictures of them spitting on the naked, murdered body of the young music festival woman as she was paraded through the streets by Hamas. If what you’re saying is true, then rather than being brain washed poor Palestinians, they are evil people taking part in a savage act of their own free will.

Even the BBC is taking its casualty figures from Hamas-run health services and presenting them as fact.

@noblegiraffe you say "I'm still not sure what choice Israel has other than to go after Hamas...". I think most of us want Hamas ousted. But the general consensus among the security community outside Israel is that this approach will not defeat Hamas, and that it's not possible to defeat a terrorist organisation through military force alone. So countless people will die and Israel will still be at risk of Hamas or its successor. The other suggested approaches put forward are not "quick fixes" and will require international involvement and political will, but surely if Israel's end game is peace and security it should be discussing these?

The world should be outraged at what Hamas did.

The world should be equally outraged at the way the Palestinians have been treated for 75 years. Brutally oppressed, imprisoned, raped, children tortured, innocent civilians shot dead, racist taunts, bombings, denied human rights, homes and land forcibly stolen, olive orchards burned down, treated like animals.

And all this going on 75 years.

I hope that you will join us then Noblegiraffe and the rest of the world and ask for a ceasefire. It is the best way to save the remaining hostages and the civilian population as well as our own humanity. UN have stated that Gaza is starving. Terrorism won’t be stopped like this.

Exactly.

And the way many of the Israeli victims have been named and their photos and stories shared in Western media - while the thousands of dead Gazan children remain unnamed.

Clearly we’re being expected to identify with and value one group over the other.

I’m neither Israeli nor Palestinian, Jewish nor Muslim. So I don’t value one over the other. I just see terrified, orphaned, maimed and traumatised children who have been brutally attacked by selfish, violent, narcissistic adults. And I don’t subscribe to the view that one is more moral and civilised than the other - not after what they’ve done and continue to do.