Be aware of misinformation seen regarding Palestine

@æterofax · Today 21:52
I specifically referred to Hamas/rampaging Gazans - e.g whoever it was.

Women were raped by whoever it was.

But even if it is true that that Hamas leader said that children, women and the elderly were not to be harmed, maybe not every Hamas terrorist obeyed the order not to harm any woman, child or elderly person. It seems unlikely all the videos were of ordinary Gazans running amok having got through the open gates.

Even if you are right that the big spreading dark red-brown stain on that poor girl’s bottom was pure liquid poo caused by her fear, not her blood from rape, (and I don’t think you are), the terror would have appalling even so, and there is blood on her arms and hands too.

I am not going to engage with you any more.

There are no doubt exaggerations all over the media from both Hamas and Israel, but to disbelieve all witnesses about rapes as a matter of course is horrible.

Meanwhile
The US claims Hamas are in tunnels using them as bases under hospitals so Hamas has invited them in to see.

Could you highlight where PP shows support for a terrorist organisation.
ie from the post.
I see their explanation and reasoning but I don’t see actual support written anywhere.
You know something that would stand up in court as you note the criminal offence

Thankyou in advance

This is one of the most sickening things I’ve read on Mumsnet. Disgraceful and actually criminal. Hopefully this will be swiftly deleted and you will be banned but it is a criminal offence to express support for proscribed terrorist organisations in this way.

@æterofax · Today 21:41

You miss out that Naama Levy was an enlisted IDF soldier.

I did not know that, but I don’t think that is relevant to the point that it looks as though she may have been raped.

Well said

@FourCandlesNotForkHandles 20:15

I can’t think why you imply that all rapes reported in the brutal Hamas/rampaging Gazan attacks of 0ct 7 are false information.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/10/israel-womens-groups-warn-of-failure-to-keep-evidence-of-sexual-violence-in-hamas-attacks
First paragraph -
“Women’s rights groups in Israel have warned of significant failings in preserving forensic evidence that could have shone a light on the scale of sexual violence committed against women and girls in last month’s Hamas attacks.
Several incidents of sexual assault and rape from 7 October have been documented by Hamas body camera footage, CCTV, material uploaded to social media, and photographs and videos taken by civilians and first responders, according to several people involved in analysing the footage. Survivor and witness testimonies, many from the Supernova rave, describe seeing women being raped before they were shot………. ”

And most of us saw the horrible video of the poor young woman being captured and put in a vehicle with blood all over the back of her trousers where her bottom was (far too much to have been her period):
www.thejc.com/news/world/female-hostage-dragged-through-gaza-is-peace-activist-dedicated-to-israeli-palestinian-dialogue-2Lwa0wy3zA21prW7PQoNg5

“It is hard to forget the footage of 19-year-old Naama Levy being manhandled into a jeep in Gaza, her hands tied behind her back and her grey tracksuit covered in blood on the bottom”.

“The footage showed men with guns and Naama being dragged from the boot of the car to the passenger seat while others looked on and celebrated.
The teenager is just one of the many hostages who were ripped from their homes on October 7”.

“In a bitter twist, it has been revealed Naama was a peace activist dedicated to promoting values of mutual understanding between Israelis, and Palestinians”.
“She was a participant in the "Hands of Peace" project in the USA, where young Americans, Israelis, and Palestinians meet in the pursuit of peace as "a lever for global social change."

Imo it is wrong to simply disbelieve all the rape reports as a matter of course.

On the other hand, in one specific instance where it was reported that a Hamas terrorist in a video was saying a woman in the video was not to be taken captive but left for raping, it seems this was a mistranslation. This from Reuters explains;
“Fact Check: Video of captured woman mistranslates captor as threatening 'rape'By Reuters Fact Check
November 8,”
www.reuters.com/fact-check/video-captured-woman-mistranslates-captor-threatening-rape-2023-11-08/

@EnoughIsay
"Calling for Israel to be wipped off the map is indeed terrible but is just words."

It's not just fucking words 🤯 It's what they're trying to do! What on earth is wrong with you that you don't see that?! They've only not been successful because of the IDF and the Iron Dome. It's not from lack of trying. Did you not see what happened on 7th October?? The amount of rockets they've been firing ever since? It's not like that's the first time they've ever fired rockets at Israel either.

Just because they haven't been successful doesn't mean they've not been trying. You're so incredibly deluded it's not even funny anymore - how can you hate Israel so much? How can you hate anything or anyone so much?! It's ridiculous.

This is absolutely disgraceful.

If I were TerryPrachette I would ask Mumsnet to ban you permanently.

TerryPrachette is a long term, very decent poster who, unlike you,always engages on the merit of the argument and never attacks the person.

Shame on you.

What Hamas did was unforgivable.

What Isreal is now doing is worse.

It is genocide.

When Russia invaded Ukraine people protested.

People opened their homes and took in refugees.

We do campaign against other wars.

And then some.

We have skin in the game because our government endorses what Israel is doing but, a large amount of the people who elected them do not.

I am in various groups and the vitriol, calling for Israel to be wiped off the map, is awful.

This is an interesting statement.

I have no doubt that leval of conversation is very heated at the moment.

Calling for Israel to be wipped off the map is indeed terrible but is just words.

Israel in the meantime is actually wiping Palestinians off the map.

Actually doing it.

On all the threads where I have read, with interest, your comments in this past month I have not seen one that gives even a cursory nod to the reality of the situation.

A bully threatenting to hit someone is scary indeed.

Gettting a fist in the face can kill.

Slightly different no?

It can’t be verified.
Dont you get it.
Israel had rape kits
The doctors were told not to test.

Why not test to verify……..mmmmm…..oooo……let me think!!
Its not rocket science.

I just showed you a report from today which says they are. Why would you disbelieve it or call it misinformation? Are you saying you don't believe the woman's testimony journalists were shown?

A report from just a few days ago by the doctors verifying the victims many of which they still have confirmed they are not investigating rape etc.

In The Times of Israel

I read it on the BBC! A police spokesperson says they are investigating multiple cases.
*13:47
Israel festival attack survivor says she saw Hamas rape woman

Lucy Williamson
Reporting from Israel
Warning: This article contains distressing content
Police have shown journalists a single horrific testimony from a woman who was at the Nova festival site during the 7 October attack.
At least 260 people were killed when Hamas gunmen fired rockets and then stormed the festival in the early hours of the morning.
Others were kidnapped and taken hostage into Gaza.
The woman described seeing Hamas fighters mutilate a woman while raping her, and said that one of her attackers then shot her in the head as he continued to rape her.
Israel’s police commissioner Yaacov Shabtai told the BBC after the briefing that this was not a one-off testimony. The nature of some of the violence was hard to speak about, he said.
"You heard how they cut part of the body between one rape and another,” he said. "So you understand those guys came to do something: it’s not the rape, it’s to insult the human being."The commissioner also suggested that investigators were relying on footage shot by Hamas to determine what had happened in some cases.
Those involved in the investigation said many of the areas where the attacks took place were still active combat zones during the crucial 48-hour window when forensic evidence for sexual assault should be obtained.
DNA was taken from bodies arriving at the main army base for identification, but police say the main focus initially was on identifying the dead, and informing families.
The head of one unit charged with collecting evidence said there were "no known living victims" of sexual assault that they could currently identify, but many of those who survived the attacks are reportedly too traumatised to give evidence.
So far, there’s little sense of the scale of sexual violence carried out by Hamas during the October attacks, but a police spokesman said they were looking into “multiple” cases.*

I have seen a few videos i thought were fake of children. I have young kids and they didn't look right to me. One actually looked like a doll and one the child looked fine just painted with something that didn't look like blood. The IDF have also posted videos of the same man being used in various videos and in various roles.
Hamas first layer is hostages, second layer is civilians, third is international propaganda and censoring the news so it creates a narrative that means the public in the west put pressure on their governments to stop the bombardment. Hamas are clever they know that they can exploit western guilt and racism that muslims/brown people are victims and not clever enough to manipulate them.

If you read Israel’s own report in the aftermath you will see for yourself.
No one is disputing they were killed