Be aware of misinformation seen regarding Palestine

Amen to all of that.

Also frustrating to see posters linking to electronic intifada as a serious source on a thread about misinformation. An oxymoron to say the least.

There are serious questions over Israel’s credibility. I don’t think anyone is disputing that Israeli (or pro-Israeli) claims are not to be taken at face value.

However, that does not make everything that Israel says untrue and it certainly doesn’t mean that everything Hamas says is true.

Both sides’ claims need serious scrutiny. It’s why the work of serious journalists and fact checkers is so important.

It’s frustrating on a thread about disinformation to keep seeing posts from
instagram and X cited totally uncritically as “fact” or “proof” rather than people taking a look to see whether there are credible news agencies reporting similar.

This is the Twitter video I referred to of the man making fun of the sort of evidence being used to condemn Palestinians.

x.com/rafaelshimunov/status/1724845976500723737?s=20

Re general misinformation:

This is a general NBC article about it.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/information-missteps-led-questions-israels-credibility-rcna125723

It is worth looking at the video included of a Palestinian making fun of the sort of things the Israeli state/military has been calling evidence against Palestinians.
Who can absolutely know if these examples shown are true or just the result of clever Palestinian comedy writing. I suspect they may be true examples.

there has been investigations carried out that prove that it was fired from the Israeli controlled side of the Gaza perimeter

@whatswrongwiththeworldddd Could you please link to a reputable, neutral news outlet that says that it has been proven that Israel was responsible? My mind is not firmly made up one way or another but the evidence I’ve seen points towards a missile fired from inside Gaza being the more likely culprit. I was initially very sceptical of Israel’s claims but the evidence seems to be with them on this particular incident.

Tweets by digital aides who jump the gun before checking their facts are evidence of nothing.

Here’s some of the analysis I’ve seen. Particularly dubious are the Hamas claims that no weapon fragments were found and that they were all “vaporised”. Experts say that just isn’t what happens.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67216929.amp

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/who-blew-up-the-hospital-in-gaza-b2432269.html

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-hospital-rocket-gaza-e0fa550faa4678f024797b72132452e3

Look on Al Jazeera now.

Mass murder. Unbelievable. A school bombed. Obscene. The USA Israel is criminal. Bodies everywhere. Everywhere.

I forgot to include this link. The actual link to the Mark Ragev interview was within this.
electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israel-admits-burning-hundreds-people-7-october

The electronic intifada article says this:
“Israel’s Haaretz newspaper on 20 October published an interview – only in its Hebrew edition”
Their Haaretz link in “published an interview” led to this Haaretz in Hebrew. I don’t know if you can find a way to translate it?
<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.md/2023.10.22-092119/www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-10-20/ty-article-magazine/.premium/0000018b-499a-dc3c-a5df-ddbaab290000?fbclid=IwAR1bObZUau2KRdEvOvGqskFyVLkVxknDg7dHm9dfgsbUbi8ECFJQZYri0As" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.md/2023.10.22-092119/www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-10-20/ty-article-magazine/.premium/0000018b-499a-dc3c-a5df-ddbaab290000?fbclid=IwAR1bObZUau2KRdEvOvGqskFyVLkVxknDg7dHm9dfgsbUbi8ECFJQZYri0As

Re: the “Who burnt them [Hamas]?” question, that seems to come result from
something Israeli Hovernment spokesman Mark Regev said :
(This below us from electronic intifada but links to a Twitter post with a real video)
“On Thursday, MSNBC host Mehdi Hasan Israeli government spokesperson Mark Regev about the many lies and false claims that Israel has made to justify its genocidal bombing and invasion of Gaza.

While attempting to parry Hasan’s challenges, Regev told many more lies, trying to change the subject and shift the blame for the horrifying toll away from Israel and onto Israel’s Palestinian victims.

But Regev made one admission whose significance neither Regev nor Hasan appears to have recognized.
Regev was trying to make the point that Israel – supposedly unlike Hamas – can be trusted because when Israel makes a mistake, it admits it.

Regex gave this example: “We originally said, in the atrocious Hamas attack upon our people on October 7th, we had the number at 1,400 casualties and now we’ve revised that down to 1,200 because we understood that we’d overestimated, we made a mistake. There were actually bodies that were so badly burnt we thought they were ours, in the end apparently they were Hamas terrorists.”’

This quote from Mark Regev is in a video posted by Ram Abdu on his Twitter.
He was the one who wrote:
“Must be shared widely!”

“The question then is: who burned them?”

“The burned bodies that Israel used as an excuse to commit the genocide in Gaza were for Palestinian fighters”

twitter.com/RamAbdu/status/1725466157166059949

Yasmin Porat seems to have been real.
But her original interview was on the radio I think. It is down to who transcribed that.

In answer to your question I don’t really know of any really clear sources being more specific.

It does seem there was understandably a certain amount of chaos on the days immediately following the Hamas/Palestinian-marauder attack Oct 7, with the IDF not always being all that cautious.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Czv8AoQIjYo/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Apologies if this has already been posted or mentioned. I haven't scrolled back

Apologies. I was trying to say the same thing as you

Thank you for the Reuters fact check links, @Takoneko; there were a couple there I'd not yet seen

I suspect, however, that there's some confusion because you're being fair enough to include misrepresentation by both parties, when an all too common mindset on here is to focus on only "their side"

A pity, really, and hardly something that's likely to help resolve anything

I’m really sorry but I don’t understand what you mean here. I know the video was shared with a misleading caption by pro-Israeli social media accounts to try to imply that Palestinians were “faking” death or injury. That’s why I posted it. It is an example of disinformation that has now been debunked.

This one was used by Israel government to say look we’re not killing f as many , they’re pretending to be death when they’re not! Until it was proof what you’ve linked

We are moving to Israel killed most of the people at the kibbutz, some at the festival and killing only women, children and babies. No Hamas killed, they don't appear to exist, no weapons.
So who fired the thousands of missiles into Israel, who took the hostages, who were raping the women and children...that will be blamed on the Israelis too. Why on earth did those Israelis launch on attack when they killed their own people. The spin and propaganda is getting to the stage that hamas are the good guys and Israel the bad guys. Strange

There is an active campaign of disinformation by both sides. You’ve started a thread about disinformation but only really seem interested in Israeli disinformation and have been happy to share stuff from sources of very dubious provenance as long as they support the narrative you favour.

What do you think of all the videos being shared that claim to show Israeli atrocities that are actually not from Gaza at all.

A few examples:

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/photo-child-lying-road-yemen-dates-2020-2023-11-17/ This is not a child killed by the IDF.

The father teaching his daughter to laugh at bombs so that she is not afraid… also not Gaza. https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/father-using-laughter-help-daughter-cope-with-bombs-was-syria-not-gaza-2023-11-16/

This is not an IDF soldier and the child was not killed. https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/old-video-security-guard-detaining-child-is-sweden-not-israel-2023-11-10/

This is not footage of an IDF attack on a hospital https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/syria-hospital-attack-footage-falsely-said-be-gaza-2023-2023-11-08/

This is not footage of an Israeli bombing in Gaza https://fullfact.org/online/aerial-footage-bomb-Sudan-not-Gaza/

This child was not rescued from rubble in Gaza https://fullfact.org/online/palestinian-girl-rescue-images/

The IDF did not admit to bombing a hospital https://fullfact.org/news/screenshot-Arabic-IDF-Facebook-post-not-genuine/

And this, like numerous other videos purportedly showing Gazans faking injuries or death is also not from Gaza at all.

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/behind-the-scenes-footage-film-shared-palestinians-faking-injuries-2023-11-17/

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/video-syrias-tadamon-massacre-shared-showing-gaza-2023-11-17/ This footage was found not to be from Gaza.

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/video-shows-stunt-choreography-not-attack-israeli-women-2023-11-17/ Another good fact check by Reuters.

Is there any report by a reputable source to support that? I have linked to FullFact, who have been meticulously researching claims from both sides and you’ve linked to a website called electric intifada and a link to Haaretz that doesn’t work for me.

Jeremy Bowen’s report:

www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67453105

Takoneko · Today 21:34

https://fullfact.org/news/israeli-helicopter-shooting-civilians-music-festival/

*Saw this and thought of this thread+

So if this is right those reports about the apache helicopters firing missiles that burnt houses and cars would be wrong.

This is from the link you sent:
”Moreover, survivors do not report any helicopters and say there was a wait for Israeli soldiers to arrive”.

A survivor, Yasmin Porat did describe a lot of shooting and tanks shelling with a report here:
https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-forces-shot-their-own-civilians-kibbutz-survivor-says/38861

In that article there is other worrying information:
“Israel’s Haaretz newspaper on 20 October published an interview – only in its Hebrew edition – with a man calle Tuval who lived in Kibbutz Be’eri, but who was away on 7 October. Tuval’s partner was however killed in the events.
Haaretz reports: “According to him [Tuval], only on Monday night and only after the commanders in the field made difficult decisions – including shelling houses with all their occupants inside in order to eliminate the terrorists along with the hostages – did the IDF [Israeli army] complete the takeover of the kibbutz. The price was terrible: at least 112 Be’eri people were killed. Others were kidnapped. Yesterday, 11 days after the massacre, the bodies of a mother and her son were discovered in one of the destroyed houses. It is believed that more bodies are still lying in the rubble.”
This testimony would seem to indicate that many Israeli captives were still alive on Monday, 9 October, Mondoweiss observes, a full two days after the events of Saturday, 7 October”.

But it is evidently impossible to know much with any certainty.