After this there will be silence

I listened to the World at One today where one of the colonels involved in the hospital storming was interviewed.
He totally gaslit the presenter. She tried to challenge him and he was belligerent. Apparently, it is going to be weeks before we, the world, will know if Hamas had their headquarter under the hospital. Weeks?

Human Rights Watch have said the evidence the IDF have shown is not sufficient for Al Shifa to have lost its protected status. Is it any wonder that people are so angry. The IDF have really got themselves into a mess with this one

Hospitals have special protections under international humanitarian law. Doctors, nurses, ambulances and other hospital staff must be permitted to do their work and patients must be protected.
Hospitals only lose those protections if it can be shown that harmful acts have been carried out from the premises. The Israeli government hasn’t provided any evidence of that.

Again today the US have expressed their 'concern' and how is their concern making a difference??

The White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan said the US was “deeply concerned that Jordanian medical personnel in Gaza were wounded in an attack near their field hospital”.
“Their essential role in conflict must be protected,” Sullivan wrote in a post on X, calling Jordan “a critical ally”. Jordan said seven staffers were wounded in shelling on Wednesday, according to reports.

This is not just an attack on Al shifa hospital but rather an attack on Gaza's healthcare infrastructure. From attacks on multiple hospitals, ambulances, medical professionals and patients. In a war zone where for many this is a lifeline. The US and UN and France and everyone else keep repeating the same things, about how concerned they are but nobody is actively trying to stop it. What is the point of their empty words? Just so in future they can say well we did try and tell Israel but its not our fault they didn't listen?

Apologies you did say doctors and patients

When Al Shifa was given orders to evacuate about 2 weeks ago the director of the hospital went back to IDF and said how can we do this. The director reported back that IDF had 'no plan' and weren't going to be providing any assistance

Which is the same thing that happened with evacuating the prem babies of which there are only 37 - there are at least 100 critically ill children and adults

I'm not sure of the value of reviewing the rules which currently aren't being followed with impunity

God himself can come down and say there are no hamas bases under hospitals, but someone on mumsnet will still insist that Israel is the most moral army who did this rightfully.

This is just a land grab for Israel. Palestinian lives are meaningless for them. This is nothing to do with October 7th, it's been going on for 75 years. The state is built on occupation and terrorism.

I've no idea. I'm not an expert in international law or the rules of conflict. But there are supposed to be rules to prevent such devastating loss of civilian life, and they haven't worked in this situation.

It's not meekness. The fact is, those people were murdered by Hamas for no other reason than because they were Jews - Starmer is right. The attempt to try and blame Israel and deny that this was something other than a pogrom just hasn't gone down well with most leaders in the US and the UK. They don't want to be the ones to say Israel doesn't have the right to try to take out Hamas.

I didn't mean the staff should leave the patients - I meant the most critically ill who can't be moved any other way should have been airlifted out, and they would need some staff with them. Would probably have required a humanitarian pause to do that.

Basically, I understand why the UK and US won't back a ceasefire, but after this is all over there needs to be a serious review of the rules of war and how to deal with this type of enemy and this type of situation.

My original point was I thought more would have been done to evacuate the hospital, and I can't see why is such an unusual situation of war (the claim being made that a hospital is being used as headquarters) more couldn't have been done by other countries to prevent the humanitarian catastrophe.

In your original post you suggested that the staff could have been 'airlifted out' - there's a few problems with that ie the doctors have refused to leave and abandon their patients to a certain death, flying a helicopter for instance into a blizzard of missiles. artillery fire would be save no-one - and IDF resolutely refuse any kind of humanitarian ceasefire no matter how brief

As for evacuating a hospital with 900 beds - how do you even do that when there is nowhere for the patients to go, no fuel to transport them, no ceasefire - evacuating another hospital involved driving the staff out and putting the patients on the pavement outside

So strictly speaking the hospital was evacuated in terms of it being empty but the patients weren't evacuated to safety

@firstpasttheposter I do actually think Hamas are willing to see the population of Gaza wiped out. Their mentality is that they will never surrender. Of course, the leaders may plan to escape, but the sacrifice of the civilians is a price they are willing to pay - I think.

@firstpasttheposter I agree about evacuating but evacuate to where? There's barely any functioning hospitals in Gaza and none at the capacity that can take on all the ill patients. There has also been continuous strikes around the hospital so unsafe to leave. You have seen yourself that an ambulance convoy was attacked
The international community should have stepped up and arranged to have them evacuated out of Gaza but nobody did. And if they tried would Israel have allowed it? As they have been so forceful of their claims of the hospital being Hamas headquarters yet have little to show for it.

@Efacsen Yes, I can imagine they have been changed in all those years, but as you say it seems like they should know the basic location and lay out.

I'm confused about the tunnels. I thought Israeli architects built them so they would know the layout? Or have they been greatly modified since Israel left Gaza?

The tunnels [and underground operating theatre] were built in 1983 which is a long time ago and there has been major development of the site in the last 40 years

Tho' you'd think it would be a good place to start wouldn't you?

I wasn't sure how to interpret that bit - did it mean they can't show them the equipment? because there are pictures of guns. Or does it mean they're nowhere nearer to finding the hostages? The fact is, Hamas are unlikely to stick around waiting for the IDF to turn up, so it's difficult to prove either way. I'm not sure where this speculation is getting us. My original point was I thought more would have been done to evacuate the hospital, and I can't see why is such an unusual situation of war (the claim being made that a hospital is being used as headquarters) more couldn't have been done by other countries to prevent the humanitarian catastrophe.

This is a very unusual war. Even the worst tyrannical governments have the sense to keep their own doctors alive and their own hospitals running - if only to get medical aid for their own soldiers, at least. Hamas are beyond mental if they are using a hospital as a base. But it's not the first time that claim has been made. Bill Clinton made it years ago. October 11 should have showed the world how mental Hamas actually are, and it's difficult to understand why people are still denying that.

I suppose Israel is rumoured to have nukes, and a minister recently suggested dropping one on Gaza. Maybe politicians are afraid to trigger something worse if they don't allow the Israeli government to do what they want. Although the west did stand up to Putin, I suppose, who may be equally as volatile as some of Netanyahu's government.
@firstpasttheposter I'm confused about the tunnels. I thought Israeli architects built them, so they would know the layout? Or have they been greatly modified since Israel left Gaza?

@firstpasttheposter according to the IDF. The proof shown was nowhere near what would be in the Hamas headquarters or what the IDF was claiming to have found
It's clearly very sceptical.

After almost 24 hours securing and searching the hospital, Israel says it has found weapons and other equipment that could help provide information on both Hamas fighters and the hostages. But it has its hands on neither.

The BBC report didn't say that at all. It said the IDF had found evidence that Hamas had definitely been there (inside the hospital), and that they think they have withdrawn into tunnels beneath, which haven't been found yet. It's not like the BBC reporters can just wander round a war zone looking for themselves. If Israel turn out to be wrong about the hospital being used by Hamas that's not going to go well for them - it will be the equivalent of our 'weapons of mass destruction' moment.

@Parkingt111 they just need to say what has happened to them. It would go a long way to kick starting talks.
I agree with what you are saying.

@Stomacharmeleon yes I agree.
I think the point the man whose I think cousin or neice that was being held hostage was saying that every time the politicians talk about destroying Gaza, don't they think that what the families must be feeling. And unfortunately that is what keeps being repeated... destroying Gaza rather than destroying Hamas
They have turned Gaza in a graveyard with mass destruction
The BBC journalist said too... it some places it looks like an earthquake has happened

@Parkingt111 it's a clever ploy by Hamas.
No sign of life or even letting families know who is alive?
Creates division within Israel for the obvious reasons.
Offering some not all. No consideration given for babies, those separated from their families, the lady pregnant who will have given birth.
It would send anyone mad with grief.
It's the not knowing.