Page 4 | After this there will be silence

notsoready4school · 2023-11-11T10:13:49+00:00

Are we really just going to just let this happen. I was upset about the protest ban in France but at least he has finally spoken up. When is the UK going to finally say something and stop letting this happen in our name. This is the moment we have been warning the whole world the Gaza Deputy Health Minister Dr. Youssef Abu Alreesh, currently inside al-Shifa Hospital as it is takes heavy fire from Israeli forces. Here are his translated comments: - This is the moment we have been warning the whole world of, all generators are off, all power sources are out. - We have 39 newborns in the incubators, those babies are fighting against death. - No one is able to move around the compound, snipers are stationed all over the place in addition to the drones that target and kill any moving person. - A few minutes ago one of the engineering team was hit by a sniper, he was hit in the neck and was paralysed and he’s now about to die. - Part of the hospital was shelled and part of the building caught fire, we fear it will engulf the whole compound. - A few families tried to leave but they were targeted; now they are lying dead outside the hospital. We cannot get to them. - We are totally stranded, we are cut off from the outside world, and above all, we are left without any medical resources. We cannot even bury the dead. - Ferocious gunfire can be heard within the vicinity of the hospital, the intensive care unit received a mortar shell a few minutes ago. - Blood is everywhere, on the floor, we cannot even clean it. - In the past, the Israeli killing machine was killing and this was conveyed on TV screens. Now they are perpetrating the same killing but no one is listening, no one is watching, the whole world is standing by. - We are speaking with whatever is left of my phone battery, after that, we will be silent.

Humdingerydoo · 21/11/2023 23:31

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 23:27

I have no idea. He is 11 years old and probably is only parroting what he has heard. He isn’t Hamas and so like most mainstream people in the UK is probably referring to the occupation. But yes no one asked him to clarify but happily reported as did you lot.
To be honest even if he had clarified given my experience here I’m guessing it would have been reported anyway. When in doubt report it is probably the approach being taken.

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Ok so you have no idea if he did say something anti-Semitic, yet you're assuming it was incorrectly classed as anti-Semitic? And then you go on to assume that even if he'd clarified he was only talking about the West Bank, he'd still be accused of anti-Semitism? That's an awful lot of assumptions.

Humdingerydoo · 21/11/2023 23:29

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 23:21

I did make the same comment about Hamza Yusef and no one did shout it down simply because it is obvious and I believe he has been open about being affected by his experiences.

As has Keir Starmer in the JC article.

anyway you can call it what you want, I have had thanks for my clarifications and talented reasoned responses but yes you go ahead and call it what you want.

The word affect has no implications of control in it. If you are reasonably fluent in English you should know that.

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Two different posters responded saying it would be islamophobic.

Original poster

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 23:27

Humdingerydoo · 21/11/2023 23:05

@notsoready4school sigh, ok. You've learned nothing. Fine. Let's leave it at that with regards to Keir Starmer.

What land exactly did your friend's son want Israel to give back to the Palestinians? The answer will determine whether or not the comment was anti-Semitic.

I have no idea. He is 11 years old and probably is only parroting what he has heard. He isn’t Hamas and so like most mainstream people in the UK is probably referring to the occupation. But yes no one asked him to clarify but happily reported as did you lot.
To be honest even if he had clarified given my experience here I’m guessing it would have been reported anyway. When in doubt report it is probably the approach being taken.

OP posts:

Original poster

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 23:21

Girahim · 21/11/2023 22:34

So why do you think there is increased security in synagogues and Jewish schools then? Is it just those pesky Jews being sensitive and exaggerating again? All these stats saying it's increasing are a lie, which you know based on the account of your friends child.

And I'm pretty sure it's been pointed out that if you made the same accusations about Humza Yusef as you did about Kier Starmer then that would be Islamophobic.

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I did make the same comment about Hamza Yusef and no one did shout it down simply because it is obvious and I believe he has been open about being affected by his experiences.

As has Keir Starmer in the JC article.

anyway you can call it what you want, I have had thanks for my clarifications and talented reasoned responses but yes you go ahead and call it what you want.

The word affect has no implications of control in it. If you are reasonably fluent in English you should know that.

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Humdingerydoo · 21/11/2023 23:05

@notsoready4school sigh, ok. You've learned nothing. Fine. Let's leave it at that with regards to Keir Starmer.

What land exactly did your friend's son want Israel to give back to the Palestinians? The answer will determine whether or not the comment was anti-Semitic.

Original poster

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 22:56

Stomacharmeleon · 21/11/2023 22:41

@Girahim only several dozen times.

@notsoready4school perhaps your friend should have pushed it in school like the Jewish boys mother? Made a fuss and make sure it was put down as Islamophobia. Or she could have reported it to the police or ofsted if she felt it wasn't dealt with adequately.

The Islamaphobic incident happened before this one and at the time the school spoke to the boy involved and addressed it. She is a hijab wearing black woman so unfortunately racism/sexism is something she experiences too often and doesn’t report. She didn’t even think that she could report it to someone, she just accepted that the school has addressed it. The point is that it didn’t get reported as an incident in any body that logs Islamophobia stats. That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

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Original poster

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 22:46

Humdingerydoo · 21/11/2023 22:29

What land exactly did your friend's son want Israel to give back to the Palestinians? The answer will determine whether or not the comment was anti-Semitic.

Him being called terrorist is clearly not ok. I would have raised that with the school.

It has been explained to you multiple times why your (repeatedly asked) question is problematic. I really wish you'd just read the answers and stop going on about it. You're not doing yourself any favours by not learning from this experience.

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I have read your answers twice and actually your comments/ the Standard journalists comments xenias comments all say the same thing and address my very not antisemitic question. That is that the fact that he has a wife who is Jewish (and who has family in Israel) does contribute to forming his opinion / views on this conflict. This is, he is ´affected’. No one tells anyone to be ‘affected’ by something. You are simple affected by your experiences. Drawing comparisons to lobbying or other tropes is really uncalled for and not relevant here. No one is suggesting she tells him how to run his party or married him to get close to politics. But this is what I mean that you are just looking for anything to call out as antisemitic.

personally I agree with the poster earlier that it’s probably more likely he is just playing it politically for votes rather than having strong convictions either way. He doesn’t seem to have convictions in general.

OP posts:

Stomacharmeleon · 21/11/2023 22:41

@Girahim only several dozen times.

@notsoready4school perhaps your friend should have pushed it in school like the Jewish boys mother? Made a fuss and make sure it was put down as Islamophobia. Or she could have reported it to the police or ofsted if she felt it wasn't dealt with adequately.

Girahim · 21/11/2023 22:34

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 22:15

Well I have a Muslim friend who’s 11 year old son was reported for ‘antisemitism’ to the CST as he said out loud in a classroom in the presence of a Jewish boy that ‘Israel needs to give Palestinians their land back’. It was said to others and not directed to the boy (verified by the teacher). He was also reprimanded at school but the Jewish boys mother reported it. Her son clearly shouldn’t be bringing these discussion up in the classroom as they can make people uncomfortable and he should be taught there is a time and place for discussions. However this is not antisemitism, it is a viewpoint shared by many criticising Israel’s policies. Many in Israel have issues with these policies as well. However it was recorded by the CST as an act of antisemitism in schools. Despite it being a political statement about Israel and not Jews. I agree it should not be discussed in school but it is definitely not antisemitism.

And the same school did not report it as Islamophobic to the police or any other body for that matter when another boy (not Jewish or Muslim) called my friend’s son a ‘terrorist’ in another unrelated incident.

This recent experience plus what I have just experienced being called antisemitic just for a very normal question. One discussed in multiple news sites (since i have now researched it) and also one which coincidentally applied in reverse to the First Minister and I even brought that up but no one shouted me down as Islamophobic for drawing the comparison (in his case conclusion).

The Jewish population is highly sensitive right now and is misinterpreting and reporting things as antisemitic even where they aren’t. That is not to say antisemitism isn’t increased currently but it seems to me (from both these experiences) a lot of criticism for Israel is being incorrectly reported as antisemitism right now and logged that way in the statistics being shared in the news.

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So why do you think there is increased security in synagogues and Jewish schools then? Is it just those pesky Jews being sensitive and exaggerating again? All these stats saying it's increasing are a lie, which you know based on the account of your friends child.

And I'm pretty sure it's been pointed out that if you made the same accusations about Humza Yusef as you did about Kier Starmer then that would be Islamophobic.

Humdingerydoo · 21/11/2023 22:29

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 22:15

Well I have a Muslim friend who’s 11 year old son was reported for ‘antisemitism’ to the CST as he said out loud in a classroom in the presence of a Jewish boy that ‘Israel needs to give Palestinians their land back’. It was said to others and not directed to the boy (verified by the teacher). He was also reprimanded at school but the Jewish boys mother reported it. Her son clearly shouldn’t be bringing these discussion up in the classroom as they can make people uncomfortable and he should be taught there is a time and place for discussions. However this is not antisemitism, it is a viewpoint shared by many criticising Israel’s policies. Many in Israel have issues with these policies as well. However it was recorded by the CST as an act of antisemitism in schools. Despite it being a political statement about Israel and not Jews. I agree it should not be discussed in school but it is definitely not antisemitism.

And the same school did not report it as Islamophobic to the police or any other body for that matter when another boy (not Jewish or Muslim) called my friend’s son a ‘terrorist’ in another unrelated incident.

This recent experience plus what I have just experienced being called antisemitic just for a very normal question. One discussed in multiple news sites (since i have now researched it) and also one which coincidentally applied in reverse to the First Minister and I even brought that up but no one shouted me down as Islamophobic for drawing the comparison (in his case conclusion).

The Jewish population is highly sensitive right now and is misinterpreting and reporting things as antisemitic even where they aren’t. That is not to say antisemitism isn’t increased currently but it seems to me (from both these experiences) a lot of criticism for Israel is being incorrectly reported as antisemitism right now and logged that way in the statistics being shared in the news.

Show quote history

What land exactly did your friend's son want Israel to give back to the Palestinians? The answer will determine whether or not the comment was anti-Semitic.

Him being called terrorist is clearly not ok. I would have raised that with the school.

It has been explained to you multiple times why your (repeatedly asked) question is problematic. I really wish you'd just read the answers and stop going on about it. You're not doing yourself any favours by not learning from this experience.

Original poster

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 22:15

Girahim · 21/11/2023 15:51

So what do you think the spike in anti-Semitism is based on @notsoready4school ?

Show quote history

Well I have a Muslim friend who’s 11 year old son was reported for ‘antisemitism’ to the CST as he said out loud in a classroom in the presence of a Jewish boy that ‘Israel needs to give Palestinians their land back’. It was said to others and not directed to the boy (verified by the teacher). He was also reprimanded at school but the Jewish boys mother reported it. Her son clearly shouldn’t be bringing these discussion up in the classroom as they can make people uncomfortable and he should be taught there is a time and place for discussions. However this is not antisemitism, it is a viewpoint shared by many criticising Israel’s policies. Many in Israel have issues with these policies as well. However it was recorded by the CST as an act of antisemitism in schools. Despite it being a political statement about Israel and not Jews. I agree it should not be discussed in school but it is definitely not antisemitism.

And the same school did not report it as Islamophobic to the police or any other body for that matter when another boy (not Jewish or Muslim) called my friend’s son a ‘terrorist’ in another unrelated incident.

This recent experience plus what I have just experienced being called antisemitic just for a very normal question. One discussed in multiple news sites (since i have now researched it) and also one which coincidentally applied in reverse to the First Minister and I even brought that up but no one shouted me down as Islamophobic for drawing the comparison (in his case conclusion).

The Jewish population is highly sensitive right now and is misinterpreting and reporting things as antisemitic even where they aren’t. That is not to say antisemitism isn’t increased currently but it seems to me (from both these experiences) a lot of criticism for Israel is being incorrectly reported as antisemitism right now and logged that way in the statistics being shared in the news.

OP posts:

Girahim · 21/11/2023 15:51

notsoready4school · 20/11/2023 22:15

No my antisemitic wording which I repeated many times was ‘Do you think having a Jewish wife affects Starmers position ?’.

Questioning what biases ‘affect’ someone’s opinion is very much a question that does not deserve to be shouted down as antisemitic.

It makes you wonder what the 1000% spike in antisemitism is actually based on if relevant questions like this by so many of people like you are shouted down as antisemitic rather than rational.

Anyway given your responses it seems you completely agree with the article.

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So what do you think the spike in anti-Semitism is based on @notsoready4school ?

FourCandlesNotForkHandles · 21/11/2023 12:51

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 12:41

Difficult to know what’s happening. I hope they found the parents and someone who loves them is with them but BBC shared the same update re 20 unaccompanied babies just now on their live page.

There is a suggestion on Al Jazeera that while 8 of the babies have a family member with them in Egypt. 7 adults for 8 babies ( one set of twins) the others that crossed into Egypt were unaccompanied.
Al Jazeera suggests other family members could not cross into Egypt but they had been with them up to that point. They note reasons are confused but some were orphans.
Yesterday only one orphan was identified.
Its not surprising news at the moment is conflicting, but at least the babies are now getting medical attention.

Original poster

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 12:41

Difficult to know what’s happening. I hope they found the parents and someone who loves them is with them but BBC shared the same update re 20 unaccompanied babies just now on their live page.

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FourCandlesNotForkHandles · 21/11/2023 12:17

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 12:08

I had been wondering what was happening with these premie babies from Shifa given the numbers were all over the place (36, 33,28,21 etc). I saw this update from UN so thought to share it. I had assumed a parent was going with them but it appears 20 babies have no one with them.

Two premature babies at al-Shifa died before evacuation: UNChristian Lindmeier, spokesman for the World Health Organization, says two of the 33 prematurely born babies that were being cared for at the besieged medical complex in Gaza City died before Sunday’s evacuation.
“[They] died only on that night because of the lack of care available to them,” he told reporters in Geneva.
On Sunday, the UN’s health agency helped evacuate 31 of the infants babies from al-Shifa, of which 28 were transferred to Egypt via the Rafah border on Monday. The other three are now in a hospital in southern Gaza together with their families.
Meanwhile, the UN children’s agency UNICEF revealed that 20 of the 28 babies evacuated to Egypt had been “unaccompanied”.
“Seven mothers accompanied eight babies,” spokesman James Elder told journalists in Geneva, adding that the babies included a pair of twins.
The reasons most of the babies were unaccompanied varied, he said. While some of the parents had been unable to cross into Egypt, others were “orphans”, Elder noted.

A news piece yesterday said a family member for all bar one had been found and are now with their babies.
At least one mother had to leave her other children behind.
3 remained at Al shifa
Two of those did not move as their family, for reasons unknown, didn’t want to or couldn’t move. Perhaps they didn’t want to leave their other children or family behind….we don’t know.
The other baby still at Al shifa had no known family still alive and was considered well enough to stay at Al Shifa.

Original poster

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 12:08

I had been wondering what was happening with these premie babies from Shifa given the numbers were all over the place (36, 33,28,21 etc). I saw this update from UN so thought to share it. I had assumed a parent was going with them but it appears 20 babies have no one with them.

Two premature babies at al-Shifa died before evacuation: UNChristian Lindmeier, spokesman for the World Health Organization, says two of the 33 prematurely born babies that were being cared for at the besieged medical complex in Gaza City died before Sunday’s evacuation.
“[They] died only on that night because of the lack of care available to them,” he told reporters in Geneva.
On Sunday, the UN’s health agency helped evacuate 31 of the infants babies from al-Shifa, of which 28 were transferred to Egypt via the Rafah border on Monday. The other three are now in a hospital in southern Gaza together with their families.
Meanwhile, the UN children’s agency UNICEF revealed that 20 of the 28 babies evacuated to Egypt had been “unaccompanied”.
“Seven mothers accompanied eight babies,” spokesman James Elder told journalists in Geneva, adding that the babies included a pair of twins.
The reasons most of the babies were unaccompanied varied, he said. While some of the parents had been unable to cross into Egypt, others were “orphans”, Elder noted.

Babies evacuated from al-Shifa Hospital to southern Gaza amid Israel war

Thirty-one premature babies, trapped in hospital without life-sustaining equipment, have been evacuated by ambulance.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/19/babies-evacuated-from-al-shifa-and-transferred-to-southern-gaza

OP posts:

Halfemptyhalfling · 20/11/2023 23:22

Lots of Jews are anti netanyahu and some Jews have been on the marches calling for a cease fire

His desire to get right wing newspapers and their readers to support and vote for a party that hasn't impoverished the British people so much that millions are switching off their fridges, might have a lot more bearing.

Humdingerydoo · 20/11/2023 22:56

cowler · 20/11/2023 22:51

What's the expression people use these days? "Mask off"?

I'm sure the extra security for Jewish schools is because they're scared of people being rational at them.

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Yeah, referring to Starmer's wife as a "bias" because she's Jewish isn't a great look, is it?!

cowler · 20/11/2023 22:53

Humdingerydoo · 20/11/2023 22:43

But this isn't what OP based their oh-so-innocent question on. They made assumptions. Those assumptions are anti-Semitic.

If Keir Starmer is concerned about his extended family in Israel, it's not because his wife has told him to be. It's because he is concerned about his extended family.

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Humza Yusef is concerned about his extended family in Gaza but I don't see posters asking completely innocent questions about his motivations or having doubts about whether the rise in Islamophobia is real.

cowler · 20/11/2023 22:51

notsoready4school · 20/11/2023 22:15

No my antisemitic wording which I repeated many times was ‘Do you think having a Jewish wife affects Starmers position ?’.

Questioning what biases ‘affect’ someone’s opinion is very much a question that does not deserve to be shouted down as antisemitic.

It makes you wonder what the 1000% spike in antisemitism is actually based on if relevant questions like this by so many of people like you are shouted down as antisemitic rather than rational.

Anyway given your responses it seems you completely agree with the article.

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What's the expression people use these days? "Mask off"?

I'm sure the extra security for Jewish schools is because they're scared of people being rational at them.

Humdingerydoo · 20/11/2023 22:43

Silence1 · 20/11/2023 22:36

Edited to add @Humdingerydoo "You're assuming that because she's Jewish she even gives a fuck about Israel. "

Keir Starmer expresses 'deep concern' for wife's family in Israel - The Jewish Chronicle (thejc.com)

Edited

But this isn't what OP based their oh-so-innocent question on. They made assumptions. Those assumptions are anti-Semitic.

If Keir Starmer is concerned about his extended family in Israel, it's not because his wife has told him to be. It's because he is concerned about his extended family.

Silence1 · 20/11/2023 22:36

Edited to add @Humdingerydoo "You're assuming that because she's Jewish she even gives a fuck about Israel. "

Keir Starmer expresses 'deep concern' for wife's family in Israel - The Jewish Chronicle (thejc.com)

https://www.thejc.com/news/news/keir-starmer-expresses-deep-concern-for-wifes-family-in-israel-9epbFzZPuQy6MfgrLxACy

HaveALaff · 20/11/2023 22:36

Naptrappedmummy · 20/11/2023 22:13

Maybe I am simplistic but to me hospital tunnels, British politicians and the history of Israel are irrelevant right now. The only relevant issue is that children are being slaughtered and orphaned to no purpose and this has to end. It has to. It sickens me to hear people in the U.K. decide from their very comfortable and safe lives that the children of other people are worth sacrificing to stick one to Hamas. Because their deaths wont solve the issue, it’s not justice it’s revenge

It's very sad indeed :(

Humdingerydoo · 20/11/2023 22:31

@notsoready4school you're not rational, you're anti-Semitic. Stop pretending otherwise.

His wife being Jewish won't have a bearing on his politics. His own opinions have a bearing on his politics.

You're honestly ridiculous for still going on about this, doubling down when told to stop being anti-Semitic. It's just not a normal, rational response, is it?!

All your posts have implied he's being influenced by his wife, not sure why you're pretending that's not the case now all of a sudden.

And I know what affect means, thank you very much. And I'm telling you, his wife being Jewish hasn't affected his politics. You're assuming that because she's Jewish she even gives a fuck about Israel. That's anti-Semitic. Why can't he possibly have his opinions because he thinks those opinions are correct?! Why is that such a far-fetched idea?

But well done on making it clear you think anti-Semitism is exaggerated. Really showing your ignorance there.

etmoiandme · 20/11/2023 22:26

You're leaning into several antisemitic tropes:

Starmer's wife - Jews as puppet masters who control power

It makes you wonder what the 1000% spike in antisemitism is actually based on if relevant questions like this by so many of people like you are shouted down as antisemitic rather than rational.

Jews as liars that can't be trusted - do you make a habit of telling minority groups they're making up racism and it should be doubted? Be honest, do you? Or is it just Jews?