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Conflict in the Middle East

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Original poster

After this there will be silence

508 replies

notsoready4school · 11/11/2023 10:13

Are we really just going to just let this happen. I was upset about the protest ban in France but at least he has finally spoken up. When is the UK going to finally say something and stop letting this happen in our name.

This is the moment we have been warning the whole world the Gaza Deputy Health Minister Dr. Youssef Abu Alreesh, currently inside al-Shifa Hospital as it is takes heavy fire from Israeli forces.
Here are his translated comments:

  • This is the moment we have been warning the whole world of, all generators are off, all power sources are out.
  • We have 39 newborns in the incubators, those babies are fighting against death.
  • No one is able to move around the compound, snipers are stationed all over the place in addition to the drones that target and kill any moving person.
  • A few minutes ago one of the engineering team was hit by a sniper, he was hit in the neck and was paralysed and he’s now about to die.
  • Part of the hospital was shelled and part of the building caught fire, we fear it will engulf the whole compound.
  • A few families tried to leave but they were targeted; now they are lying dead outside the hospital. We cannot get to them.
  • We are totally stranded, we are cut off from the outside world, and above all, we are left without any medical resources. We cannot even bury the dead.
  • Ferocious gunfire can be heard within the vicinity of the hospital, the intensive care unit received a mortar shell a few minutes ago.
  • Blood is everywhere, on the floor, we cannot even clean it.
  • In the past, the Israeli killing machine was killing and this was conveyed on TV screens. Now they are perpetrating the same killing but no one is listening, no one is watching, the whole world is standing by.
  • We are speaking with whatever is left of my phone battery, after that, we will be silent.
OP posts:
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Parkingt111 · 22/11/2023 09:04

Yet she still remains as the Israeli ambassador to the UK
Which shows there is a level of acceptance in Israel for that view and not just those who are settlers but other factions too

Reallifelurker · 22/11/2023 09:04

Saying Israel shouldn't exist isn't criticising Israel though, that's saying no Jews allowed in the land. Or at the very best, Jews going back to being second-class citizens. Just like they have always been in the rest of the Arab world

I would argue the view that Israel shouldn’t exist is more Anti Zionism. I mean it was a serious enough term back when I was using it to mean anti settlements. I was pulled up in that several times. Is it because the boy and his mother were not Israelis/Zionists that it has to be antisemitism?

The boy who made the remark was 11 years old. At that age you can be thoughtless. A quick talking to to explain the error of his ways should have been enough.

And I still don’t understand why calling someone who is Muslim a terrorist is taken less seriously (at least in the scenarios the OP describes)

Parkingt111 · 22/11/2023 08:53

@Humdingerydoo thank you for saying you don't believe that
I also believe in a two state solution but it just seems slightly as double standards that one view is considered Anti-semitic but those who hold the same view on the other side are people in power and respected and not held to account in any way

In a speech in 2015 she said Israel had tried too hard to appease the world. “This land is ours. All of it is ours. We did not come here to apologise for that.”

I have seen some of her recent interviews and it doesn't seem like her views have changed

Humdingerydoo · 22/11/2023 08:50

Sorry, that last comment was a bit flippant. I don't know the actual answer. It's not a view I agree with.

Humdingerydoo · 22/11/2023 08:48

@Parkingt111 I don't know what the term would be for that. Right-wing nutjob? I don't know.

Humdingerydoo · 22/11/2023 08:47

Yes @Reallifelurker , expecting Jews to have an opinion on Israel just because they're Jewish would be anti-Semitic.

Saying Israel shouldn't exist isn't criticising Israel though, that's saying no Jews allowed in the land. Or at the very best, Jews going back to being second-class citizens. Just like they have always been in the rest of the Arab world.

Parkingt111 · 22/11/2023 08:39

As I'm sure that's the view of the Israeli ambassador to the UK

Parkingt111 · 22/11/2023 08:38

So whats the term for the people who think that whole area should be Israel?
Or for that belief?

Reallifelurker · 22/11/2023 08:37

Yes, some land should, eg settlers should up and leave. But if the friend's son said all of Israel should become Palestine, that would also be anti-Semitic, not "just" anti-zionist

Genuine (please note: genuine) question
Why?

We’ve been told time and time again a lot of Jewish people aren’t interested in Israel and shouldn’t be expected to have an opinion on Israel and are nothing to do with Israel but suddenly criticism of Israel is antisemitic?

Parkingt111 · 22/11/2023 08:36

@Humdingerydoo But if the friend's son said all of Israel should become Palestine, that would also be anti-Semitic, not "just" anti-zionist. That's all I'm saying.
Even if they believed that Jewish people can still live there?
I'm not saying that's what I think should happen just that I didn't know that would be considered Anti-semitic

Only because I know there's quite a few people including many politicians who believe the whole area including the occupied West bank and Gaza should be Israel but some palestinians can continue living there but under Israeli sovereign
For example the Israeli ambassador to the UK. She has stated that before

Humdingerydoo · 22/11/2023 08:31

@notsoready4school I don't think any of us need an English lesson from you 🤦🏻‍♀️ Are you this condescending to people in real life too?

The only one getting confused by all this is you. You're so adamant you're right that you're running in circles and confusing yourself and no longer know what you even believe in. It's tiresome. I'm done talking about this with you as you've already said you will keep going with your anti-semitic rhetoric and no one is going to stop you. There is no reasoning with the unreasonable. So I'm out.

Humdingerydoo · 22/11/2023 08:25

Reallifelurker · 22/11/2023 08:14

Of course it should have been reported as anti-semitism if her son was saying all of Israel should have been returned to the Palestinians

Some land should be returned to be fair. Not all.

Anti Zionism rather than antisemitism perhaps.

Edited

Yes, some land should, eg settlers should up and leave. But if the friend's son said all of Israel should become Palestine, that would also be anti-Semitic, not "just" anti-zionist. That's all I'm saying. Op has no clue what her friend's son said but is still adamant he didn't say anything wrong. Without any evidence for that whatsoever. I'm trying to explain that it's a ridiculous stance to take if you don't know the facts, which none of us do.

firstpasttheposter · 22/11/2023 08:25

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 22:46

I have read your answers twice and actually your comments/ the Standard journalists comments xenias comments all say the same thing and address my very not antisemitic question. That is that the fact that he has a wife who is Jewish (and who has family in Israel) does contribute to forming his opinion / views on this conflict. This is, he is ´affected’. No one tells anyone to be ‘affected’ by something. You are simple affected by your experiences. Drawing comparisons to lobbying or other tropes is really uncalled for and not relevant here. No one is suggesting she tells him how to run his party or married him to get close to politics. But this is what I mean that you are just looking for anything to call out as antisemitic.

personally I agree with the poster earlier that it’s probably more likely he is just playing it politically for votes rather than having strong convictions either way. He doesn’t seem to have convictions in general.

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Are we still on this question????

Original poster
notsoready4school · 22/11/2023 08:23

notsoready4school · 22/11/2023 08:21

It has occurred to me this morning that you and a few of the other posters who are drawing comparisons to Hamza Yusuf inconsistently are genuinely confusing the word ‘effect’ with ‘affect’.

Cause and ‘effect’. The effect of the attacks was to start an all out war. Here there is a direct correlation from the attacks to the war and hence you can attribute the actions singly to the attack.

’affect’ The teacher told the students that coursework will also affect the overall results. Here it is a contributing factor. It is not the only factor but it will influence the outcomes of students.

The articles, your statements, Xenias comments have repeatedly affirmed that you do believe he is ‘affected’ by his experiences. However you are adamant his position is not the net result (effect) of his wife’s views. I agree with you.

@Humdingerydoo sorry this was for you. Also the others who seem to be confusing themselves in the First Minister example. To say it is the ‘effect’ is wrong but not that he is ‘affected’

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Original poster
notsoready4school · 22/11/2023 08:21

It has occurred to me this morning that you and a few of the other posters who are drawing comparisons to Hamza Yusuf inconsistently are genuinely confusing the word ‘effect’ with ‘affect’.

Cause and ‘effect’. The effect of the attacks was to start an all out war. Here there is a direct correlation from the attacks to the war and hence you can attribute the actions singly to the attack.

’affect’ The teacher told the students that coursework will also affect the overall results. Here it is a contributing factor. It is not the only factor but it will influence the outcomes of students.

The articles, your statements, Xenias comments have repeatedly affirmed that you do believe he is ‘affected’ by his experiences. However you are adamant his position is not the net result (effect) of his wife’s views. I agree with you.

OP posts:
Reallifelurker · 22/11/2023 08:14

Of course it should have been reported as anti-semitism if her son was saying all of Israel should have been returned to the Palestinians

Some land should be returned to be fair. Not all.

Anti Zionism rather than antisemitism perhaps.

Reallifelurker · 22/11/2023 08:10

So why do you think there is increased security in synagogues and Jewish schools then? Is it just those pesky Jews being sensitive and exaggerating again? All these stats saying it's increasing are a lie, which you know based on the account of your friends child

To be fair reporting a comment about Israel as a hate crime but thinking a comment that Muslims are terrorists is ok is a double standard.

I thought we weren’t supposed to equate Jewish people with Israel anyway.

Humdingerydoo · 21/11/2023 23:56

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 23:53

Of course. Conflating them ALL works vey well for the stats

Edited

Genuinely laughing at this now. So ridiculous.

For someone who has complained about me not knowing enough English to know what "affect" means, I would've thought you'd be well up on your own English and comprehension skills? Clearly not. Oh well.

Original poster
notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 23:53

Of course. Conflating them ALL works vey well for the stats

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Humdingerydoo · 21/11/2023 23:50

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 23:47

Oh and actually anti Zionist is not the same thing as antisemitism as there are definitely some Jewish groups that are anti zionist religious reasons.

It should not have been reported as antisemitism either way.

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Of course it should have been reported as anti-semitism if her son was saying all of Israel should have been returned to the Palestinians.

I realise you think you've dug your way out of this one, but you haven't. You can be anti-Semitic and anti-zionist, you can be Jewish and anti-zionist and (Shock! Horror!) you can be Jewish and anti-Semitic. I know, crazy right?!

Original poster
notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 23:47

Humdingerydoo · 21/11/2023 23:31

Ok so you have no idea if he did say something anti-Semitic, yet you're assuming it was incorrectly classed as anti-Semitic? And then you go on to assume that even if he'd clarified he was only talking about the West Bank, he'd still be accused of anti-Semitism? That's an awful lot of assumptions.

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Oh and actually anti Zionist is not the same thing as antisemitism as there are definitely some Jewish groups that are anti zionist religious reasons.

It should not have been reported as antisemitism either way.

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Original poster
notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 23:35

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 23:33

This is all news from her.

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And how openly ignorant of you to not know about the daily racism and bias black Muslim women experience. Nice victim blaming

OP posts:
Original poster
notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 23:33

Stomacharmeleon · 21/11/2023 23:33

@notsoready4school not a very good school if she feels she can't address Islamophobia toward her own son and treat her differently because she is black and hijab wearing... or pick up a phone.
And yet you know everything about the other incident... who phoned.... how far it went. Do you work there?
Strange that.

This is all news from her.

OP posts:
Original poster
notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 23:33

Exactly my point, better to report it and then worry about accuracy. Thanks for making my point for me.

OP posts:
Stomacharmeleon · 21/11/2023 23:33

@notsoready4school not a very good school if she feels she can't address Islamophobia toward her own son and treat her differently because she is black and hijab wearing... or pick up a phone.
And yet you know everything about the other incident... who phoned.... how far it went. Do you work there?
Strange that.

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