Page 2 | After this there will be silence

notsoready4school · 2023-11-11T10:13:49+00:00

Are we really just going to just let this happen. I was upset about the protest ban in France but at least he has finally spoken up. When is the UK going to finally say something and stop letting this happen in our name. This is the moment we have been warning the whole world the Gaza Deputy Health Minister Dr. Youssef Abu Alreesh, currently inside al-Shifa Hospital as it is takes heavy fire from Israeli forces. Here are his translated comments: - This is the moment we have been warning the whole world of, all generators are off, all power sources are out. - We have 39 newborns in the incubators, those babies are fighting against death. - No one is able to move around the compound, snipers are stationed all over the place in addition to the drones that target and kill any moving person. - A few minutes ago one of the engineering team was hit by a sniper, he was hit in the neck and was paralysed and he’s now about to die. - Part of the hospital was shelled and part of the building caught fire, we fear it will engulf the whole compound. - A few families tried to leave but they were targeted; now they are lying dead outside the hospital. We cannot get to them. - We are totally stranded, we are cut off from the outside world, and above all, we are left without any medical resources. We cannot even bury the dead. - Ferocious gunfire can be heard within the vicinity of the hospital, the intensive care unit received a mortar shell a few minutes ago. - Blood is everywhere, on the floor, we cannot even clean it. - In the past, the Israeli killing machine was killing and this was conveyed on TV screens. Now they are perpetrating the same killing but no one is listening, no one is watching, the whole world is standing by. - We are speaking with whatever is left of my phone battery, after that, we will be silent.

Original poster

notsoready4school · 22/11/2023 19:20

Stomacharmeleon · 22/11/2023 18:14

@notsoready4school oh so she is contesting the detention but felt she couldn't report the Islamophobia?

you are very rude and coming across as racist

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Original poster

notsoready4school · 22/11/2023 19:19

feralunderclass · 22/11/2023 10:46

This is so incredibly dehumanising and erasive of the people. I was watching a documentary of Maha Saka, a woman in her 60s who has won awards for her contribution towards the preservation of the Palestinian cross stitch. She was showing photos that go back 6 generations, to the early 1800s of her family in Bethlehem, all wearing the same clothes. She explains how the Zionist movement have attempted to erase any form of culture and identity from the Palestinians. We really need a word to describe this anti-Palestian feeling.

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i not a theme here…

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Original poster

notsoready4school · 22/11/2023 19:17

Reallifelurker · 22/11/2023 09:04

Saying Israel shouldn't exist isn't criticising Israel though, that's saying no Jews allowed in the land. Or at the very best, Jews going back to being second-class citizens. Just like they have always been in the rest of the Arab world

I would argue the view that Israel shouldn’t exist is more Anti Zionism. I mean it was a serious enough term back when I was using it to mean anti settlements. I was pulled up in that several times. Is it because the boy and his mother were not Israelis/Zionists that it has to be antisemitism?

The boy who made the remark was 11 years old. At that age you can be thoughtless. A quick talking to to explain the error of his ways should have been enough.

And I still don’t understand why calling someone who is Muslim a terrorist is taken less seriously (at least in the scenarios the OP describes)

The school did have a talk with him but the point is it was also reported as an incident of antisemitism in school at the CST. This is the body that gets quoted for 1000% rise in antisemitism.

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Stomacharmeleon · 22/11/2023 18:14

@notsoready4school oh so she is contesting the detention but felt she couldn't report the Islamophobia?

Original poster

notsoready4school · 22/11/2023 18:01

Reallifelurker · 22/11/2023 09:04

Saying Israel shouldn't exist isn't criticising Israel though, that's saying no Jews allowed in the land. Or at the very best, Jews going back to being second-class citizens. Just like they have always been in the rest of the Arab world

I would argue the view that Israel shouldn’t exist is more Anti Zionism. I mean it was a serious enough term back when I was using it to mean anti settlements. I was pulled up in that several times. Is it because the boy and his mother were not Israelis/Zionists that it has to be antisemitism?

The boy who made the remark was 11 years old. At that age you can be thoughtless. A quick talking to to explain the error of his ways should have been enough.

And I still don’t understand why calling someone who is Muslim a terrorist is taken less seriously (at least in the scenarios the OP describes)

It was taken seriously by the school. The contacted my friend and told her he is being reprimanded (detention). And that it won’t happen again.

I don’t know if the boy/ parents were Israeli. In relation to that incident as well, the school contacted her and told them what had occurred and has given him the highest form of detention (which she is currently contesting) but in the mean time they also informed her that the Jewish boys parent has logged the incident as antisemitism

OP posts:

Girahim · 22/11/2023 15:38

notsoready4school · 21/11/2023 23:53

Of course. Conflating them ALL works vey well for the stats

Edited

"Works well"? No one wants there to be more anti-Semitic attacks.

Girahim · 22/11/2023 15:29

Reallifelurker · 22/11/2023 08:10

So why do you think there is increased security in synagogues and Jewish schools then? Is it just those pesky Jews being sensitive and exaggerating again? All these stats saying it's increasing are a lie, which you know based on the account of your friends child

To be fair reporting a comment about Israel as a hate crime but thinking a comment that Muslims are terrorists is ok is a double standard.

I thought we weren’t supposed to equate Jewish people with Israel anyway.

Edited

The difference in response from the school may have been due to one incident being reported and the ither not. That still doesn't mean that the increase in anti-Semitism is false based on one incident relayed second hand to the OP based on the account of a child. And it certainly does not explain why there is an increase in security needed, which OP has decided to give a lecture on grammar rather than address.

Stomacharmeleon · 22/11/2023 11:16

@feralunderclass I really wasn't attempting to minimise anything I was talking about the use of the word. I have said several times that both peoples were in that area in Biblical times.

Chaitales · 22/11/2023 11:11

feralunderclass · 22/11/2023 10:46

This is so incredibly dehumanising and erasive of the people. I was watching a documentary of Maha Saka, a woman in her 60s who has won awards for her contribution towards the preservation of the Palestinian cross stitch. She was showing photos that go back 6 generations, to the early 1800s of her family in Bethlehem, all wearing the same clothes. She explains how the Zionist movement have attempted to erase any form of culture and identity from the Palestinians. We really need a word to describe this anti-Palestian feeling.

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Thank you for responding. I was so stunned that just couldn't reply. Thank you for stating.

There is so much history available in books and documentaries - I'll try to dig out some good names later if people would like to read about the history of the area beyond limited news headlines.

feralunderclass · 22/11/2023 11:11

Yes @Stomacharmeleon but you are attempting to minimize them by pointing out the relative 'newness' of their identity. (which I don't think is true). Maha Saka went on to say that the Palestinian embroidery is a form of resistance, considering that their food, music and even the dabke has been hijacked. As one of the politicians recently said "leave no memory of them".

firstpasttheposter · 22/11/2023 11:05

feralunderclass · 22/11/2023 10:46

This is so incredibly dehumanising and erasive of the people. I was watching a documentary of Maha Saka, a woman in her 60s who has won awards for her contribution towards the preservation of the Palestinian cross stitch. She was showing photos that go back 6 generations, to the early 1800s of her family in Bethlehem, all wearing the same clothes. She explains how the Zionist movement have attempted to erase any form of culture and identity from the Palestinians. We really need a word to describe this anti-Palestian feeling.

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My (very limited) understanding is that the Jews that lived in the area would have very similar culture, though differing religion.

Stomacharmeleon · 22/11/2023 11:00

@feralunderclass that's historical fact and I meant by name. I have also said both Jews and Palestinians have been in that area since biblical times.

feralunderclass · 22/11/2023 10:51

And the Palestinians really need a homeland.

feralunderclass · 22/11/2023 10:46

Stomacharmeleon · 22/11/2023 10:33

And to be 'Palestinian' is a relatively new thing. Palestinian national identity didn't really emerge until after WW1.

This is so incredibly dehumanising and erasive of the people. I was watching a documentary of Maha Saka, a woman in her 60s who has won awards for her contribution towards the preservation of the Palestinian cross stitch. She was showing photos that go back 6 generations, to the early 1800s of her family in Bethlehem, all wearing the same clothes. She explains how the Zionist movement have attempted to erase any form of culture and identity from the Palestinians. We really need a word to describe this anti-Palestian feeling.

Stomacharmeleon · 22/11/2023 10:33

And to be 'Palestinian' is a relatively new thing. Palestinian national identity didn't really emerge until after WW1.

Stomacharmeleon · 22/11/2023 10:29

@Humdingerydoo I think we are on the same page...

@notsoready4school it's really rude to accuse me of being racist and having no knowledge of bias when you Don't know me or where my family live. You told a convoluted story about your mates son who had the forethought to relay Back to you all that the school said and didn't say and what her son had meant and not meant. But didn't report it. You then spent the night ruminating about the use of a word.

@Parkingt111 as ever the voice of reason and genuine debate and it is appreciated.

@Chaitales Jews have been in that area since biblical times. They both have. It needs to be a two state solution for that reason.

Reallifelurker · 22/11/2023 10:20

Saying Israel shouldn't exist is anti-Semitic as it leaves Jews with nowhere to go. It's saying all Jews should leave the land. How is that not anti-Semitic?
I’m not saying it’s ok. More quibbling over terminology I guess.

There have always been Jews in Israel, so I'm not sure why they shouldn't be allowed to stay.
Well the Palestinians had been living there for generations when the Israelis came along. It didn’t seem to do them any good what with the Zionists telling themselves a land without people for a people without a land.
There’s no need to repeat the wrong but displacing the Israelis of course but they are occupying Palestinian land so you can see where the idea of giving back land came from (remember we’re talking about an 11 year old. The massive difference between all of the land and some of the land may well of escaped him)

Humdingerydoo · 22/11/2023 09:33

Chaitales · 22/11/2023 09:22

Israel is built by displacing Palestinians based on Britain giving them a right to a land that wasn't theirs to give. It was not bought land, it was taken. People came, got Palestinian visas, stayed as guests in Palestinian homes, and subsequently threw their hosts out.
Saying that Israel is built on Palestinian land and the land belongs to Palestinians is not anti semitic, any less than feeling sorrow that America is built in stolen native land and wishing that native Americans were recognised, honored and recompensed.
It's nothing to do with being against Jewish people and all about wanting freedom, justice and a home for Palestinians, who are native to a land. They can all stay. There can be two states. They can have equal rights in whichever state whether one or two. Why should there be oppression and apartheid against one?

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There have always been Jews in Israel. It's not a coincidence that the two temples and all Jewish holy sites are in Israel. Jews also legally bought land from the owners in more recent years. If I buy land, I'd expect to be allowed to live on it. Wouldn't you?

I really don't want to have this discussion again though. You're not going to agree with my version of events and I'm not going to agree with yours.

There needs to be a two state solution regardless of everything that has happened in the past.

Chaitales · 22/11/2023 09:22

Humdingerydoo · 21/11/2023 22:29

What land exactly did your friend's son want Israel to give back to the Palestinians? The answer will determine whether or not the comment was anti-Semitic.

Him being called terrorist is clearly not ok. I would have raised that with the school.

It has been explained to you multiple times why your (repeatedly asked) question is problematic. I really wish you'd just read the answers and stop going on about it. You're not doing yourself any favours by not learning from this experience.

Show quote history

Israel is built by displacing Palestinians based on Britain giving them a right to a land that wasn't theirs to give. It was not bought land, it was taken. People came, got Palestinian visas, stayed as guests in Palestinian homes, and subsequently threw their hosts out.
Saying that Israel is built on Palestinian land and the land belongs to Palestinians is not anti semitic, any less than feeling sorrow that America is built in stolen native land and wishing that native Americans were recognised, honored and recompensed.
It's nothing to do with being against Jewish people and all about wanting freedom, justice and a home for Palestinians, who are native to a land. They can all stay. There can be two states. They can have equal rights in whichever state whether one or two. Why should there be oppression and apartheid against one?

Humdingerydoo · 22/11/2023 09:21

Parkingt111 · 22/11/2023 09:10

@Humdingerydoo thank you I do sincerely hope so. Although Netanyahu has made it clear the war won't stop even if all the hostages are released
It's abit worrying right now as it could go either way after the war. There could be more people who want peace and there could be also more people inclining towards the right wing after the attacks.
I think a good leader will change the course. Off topic but that's why I asked this on a different group. Are there any contenders in Israel right now in Israel who enough people will rally behind who would address all these issues.
If not then it seems it will continue how it is or possibly get worse
But anyway thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts

Edited

I genuinely believe that once all the hostages are returned (and I mean including the soldiers, although I suspect they've mostly already been killed) that Israelis will do their very best to oust Netanyahu. Once the only objective all Israelis can agree on is finalised, he'll be out.

I don't know anything about politics in Israel though, so not sure who could take over. I just know there's been something like five elections in five years, so it's clearly a country full of varying opinions.

Efacsen · 22/11/2023 09:19

Parkingt111 · 22/11/2023 09:10

@Humdingerydoo thank you I do sincerely hope so. Although Netanyahu has made it clear the war won't stop even if all the hostages are released
It's abit worrying right now as it could go either way after the war. There could be more people who want peace and there could be also more people inclining towards the right wing after the attacks.
I think a good leader will change the course. Off topic but that's why I asked this on a different group. Are there any contenders in Israel right now in Israel who enough people will rally behind who would address all these issues.
If not then it seems it will continue how it is or possibly get worse
But anyway thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts

Edited

Saw you ask that yesterday so went to look for the Guardian article published during the first week of the war about exactly that

Couldn't find it but from what I recall it didn't contain any good news really - the reason Israel ended up with the Netanhayu coalition in recent elections was that there isn't much else available - not much in the way of centre right parties and the left is fragmented and ineffectual

It did say that the war might change that even at that early stage of writing

Humdingerydoo · 22/11/2023 09:13

Reallifelurker · 22/11/2023 09:04

Saying Israel shouldn't exist isn't criticising Israel though, that's saying no Jews allowed in the land. Or at the very best, Jews going back to being second-class citizens. Just like they have always been in the rest of the Arab world

I would argue the view that Israel shouldn’t exist is more Anti Zionism. I mean it was a serious enough term back when I was using it to mean anti settlements. I was pulled up in that several times. Is it because the boy and his mother were not Israelis/Zionists that it has to be antisemitism?

The boy who made the remark was 11 years old. At that age you can be thoughtless. A quick talking to to explain the error of his ways should have been enough.

And I still don’t understand why calling someone who is Muslim a terrorist is taken less seriously (at least in the scenarios the OP describes)

The terrorist comment was apparently unrelated to his comments. I don't think it should have been taken less seriously. I don't understand why it wasn't reported. I would've reported it if it had been my child.

Saying Israel shouldn't exist is anti-Semitic as it leaves Jews with nowhere to go. It's saying all Jews should leave the land. How is that not anti-Semitic? I have family who were killed in Europe for being Jewish and I have family who were killed in Iraq for being Jewish.

There have always been Jews in Israel, so I'm not sure why they shouldn't be allowed to stay. There needs to be two states.

Parkingt111 · 22/11/2023 09:10

@Humdingerydoo thank you I do sincerely hope so. Although Netanyahu has made it clear the war won't stop even if all the hostages are released
It's abit worrying right now as it could go either way after the war. There could be more people who want peace and there could be also more people inclining towards the right wing after the attacks.
I think a good leader will change the course. Off topic but that's why I asked this on a different group. Are there any contenders in Israel right now in Israel who enough people will rally behind who would address all these issues.
If not then it seems it will continue how it is or possibly get worse
But anyway thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts

Reallifelurker · 22/11/2023 09:08

I think we'll probably find that once the hostages have all been released the Israelis will be taking their government to task and demanding accountability.

Let’s hope so. Both Hamas and the current Israeli government gone would be a good outcome at least. Both strike me as quite resilient though :(

Humdingerydoo · 22/11/2023 09:05

@Parkingt111
"but those who hold the same view on the other side are people in power and respected and not held to account in any way"

Not sure they're particularly well respected 🙈 I think they live in their own little echo chamber. I'm not trying to minimise what has been said - I believe that words matter and that the inflammatory language used by some politicians has been absolutely revolting. I don't think they should be allowed to say some of the stuff they say, I think it should in some cases be illegal. I think they should be held accountable, and I think we'll probably find that once the hostages have all been released the Israelis will be taking their government to task and demanding accountability.