The cenotaph and poppy sellers

I’d imagine the people making that placard knew exactly the symbolism they were using.

I have been wearing a small Palestine flag pin on my coat lapel, and my poppy on the other side. I'm due at a remembrance service tomorrow - do you think it will be seen as provocative to wear them both? Shall I just remove the flag pin for the service? I don't want to offend anyone but I've been wanting to show my support for the Palestinian people.

@MCOut Yes, however London is the capital city of England and is of political and cultural significance to the nation as a whole. It is home to the cenotaph and the field of remembrance which are national monuments. It does not belong purely to the people who live there.

Plus the incident with the knife (not sure of details)

This knife incident? Or another one. There's one where a member of the "Far Right" he was arrested on "suspicion" of having a knife but that has not been confirmed as yet.

x.com/andreaskoureas_/status/1723413448166449340?s=46

There are multiple incidents of attacks/racism and anti social behaviour/intimidation from Palestine March supporters today if you care to look but you'd never know it reading Mumsnet. I genuinely don't get it. Are people so glued to their preferred narrative that they refuse to look outside of it? I like to have ALL the information and then make up my mind. Until recently I genuinely believed that was the majority viewpoint.

x.com/tpointuk/status/1723414789412560916?s=46

I'd prefer not to have linked to this X account but funnily enough, no other more palatable commentator seems to be shown it. Almost like it doesn't fit the narrative.

x.com/metpoliceuk/status/1723420872403296605?s=46

@mpsw

So ~0.03%?

And how many far right “defenders” were there? Because 82 of them were arrested, and I’m sure their numbers weren’t close to the 300,000 at the (peaceful) Palestine March.

I’ve seen one report of a woman being arrested for carrying a placard comparing Israel to the Nazis. I’m glad that the police are now taking this seriously. Too many people have been doing this with impunity for too long.

Further to my last, I've just seen there were over 100 arrests of those on the Palestine march today

(much smaller proportion then the EDL numbers were of their total number, but still deplorable)

Ha thanks for the reply!
Maybe Jewish people can call themselves Jews but it could be rude from others?

I've never really understood why people are offended by "Jew", unless it's used in an obviously offensive way. I actually thought about changing my wording to somehow change it from "Jew" as I've noticed some people take offense to it, but couldn't really think of another way to phrase it. So I left it!

So really, there's no point in me having responded to you as I clearly have no answers so should probably just have kept quiet 😅 Hopefully someone else can come along and explain why they would find it offensive. I personally don't :) (and yes, I am Jewish. I am a proud Jew!)

Well, they're on camera throwing a steel barricade at the police, and there's footage of one hitting a police officer in the face, plus repeated attempts to break through cordons. Plus the incident with the knife (not sure of details) and the nicking of police riot gear (on camera). Plus attempts to storm Cenotaph and disturbance next to Field of Remembrance. More EDL types arrested today than the total for all Palestine marches put together

Accounts on what happened re Gove vary (only one tabloid says there was violence, police were there and I do think it'll be properly investigated.

Fireworks were 4 Nov, not seen reports from today

Don’t want to derail but a quick question. For anyone really.

Even though I say Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, I always say ‘Jewish person’. Because it feels rude to say ‘Jew’ as it has been used I believe in a derogatory way by some. But I also see people who are pro-Israel use the term ‘Jew’.

Is there a consensus on this? I will continue to say ‘Jewish person’ though as I don’t want to offend.

Over 60% of London is not white British and traditionally when we talk about the WWs the commonwealth contribution is ignored. As a result remembrance might not resonate with most here in the same way it will for you. Being honest it doesn’t for me. How is it reasonable to have the expectation that everyone should both take part in this and prioritise it?

By all means if this is important to you then that is where you should put your focus but you cannot demand that others do the same. I would completely understand where you were coming from if there been plans to disrupt scheduled events. That would be disrespectful but that was not the case.

And have nothing but condemnation for the EDL types who were the only ones who behaved like shits neat the Cenotaph and the Field of Remembrance

Yes. Well at least they never tried to stab anyone for holding up a sign, or fire fireworks at the police while chanting "Fuck The Pigs!" Or attack the police for confiscating said fireworks. Or even try to attack Michael Gove as he passed through a train station going about his lawful business - whatever you think about him, I'm not sure that's what "peaceful" protesters should be getting up to 🤔

The only pic that the telly channels have got hold of (so far) featuring horns is of Braverman

I remember meeting a Welsh jew once. I can't remember the context of the meeting, but she was there to tell her story. The only thing I can really remember (this was at least 20 years ago) was her saying that her school friends in Wales would genuinely ask her where her horns were. They'd been told all Jews had them, and they were intrigued how she managed to cover them up so well.

That's partly why putting devil horns on a Jew can be incredibly offensive. I hope that clears the matter up a little.

I'm not saying the poster being discussed was intentionally anti-Semitic - I haven't seen it, just saw a few comments discussing it - but this is why in my opinion it would be different to putting horns on eg Trump. I guess it's a bit like the octopus in Greta Thunberg's photo - seemingly innocent but very reminiscent of hate propaganda back in the day

It's like people don't understand what armistice means.

I think it's entirely appropriate to have a march calling for a ceasefire on Armistice Day

And have nothing but condemnation for the EDL types who were the only ones who behaved like shits neat the Cenotaph and the Field of Remembrance

Oh and @Ecdysiast can you tell me where I mentioned violence against poppy sellers? I've said nothing of the sort.

As I've said in previous posts, today should have been a respectful day of remembrance for the fallen in the WWs.

Instead the focus has been on the marches and the mindless racists who have tried to cause trouble. No need. The focus today should have been purely on the armistice events. It's one weekend a year

You can hand wring all you want but it was disrespectful to hold a march today. Any idiot could have foreseen that there would be trouble because the poppy is a dog whistle to a certain type of racist. My grandparents fought against antisemites & right wing Nazis, they shouldn't have been given the oxygen of publicity today.

Are they Jewish?

This really isn’t that complicated and nothing a quick Google search couldn’t enlighten you on. Are you aware of the imagery and language that has been used to target, dehumanise and persecute Jewish people throughout history?

On a deleted thread, people were calling the counter protestors today “knuckle draggers”. That isn’t problematic because white people haven’t historically been dehumanised and persecuted by using language and imagery which compares them to animals, in particular, primates. Other groups have, however, and if that kind of language or imagery were used to describe those groups then that would be racism and equally as problematic as using devil horns on a Jewish person which is quite rightly antisemitism.

100%

So one minute they're accused of looking to incite violence against poppy sellers, and the next they're 'hijacking poppies'. Which is it, @MissAtomicBomb1 ? Make up your mind how you want to smear them.

"The shits of the day are the EDF and others of their type"

Thank God we switched to Octopus