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Conflict in the Middle East

The cenotaph and poppy sellers

287 replies

LittleMooli · 10/11/2023 06:17

Hi, would anyone mind explaining to me why the media seems to be portraying that remembrance commemorations are being targeted by pro-palestinian protests? I don't really know enough to know how the two things are linked.

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AdrianaLaCerva · 10/11/2023 08:56

Nice try @queenofarles but no cigar. I am simply reporting what my fellow Londoners are saying in real life as well as what we feel when intimidation towards us from the protestors happens - which I have personally witnessed.

We are sick to death of you all bussing into our City when we don’t want your aggression here thanks.

Dulra · 10/11/2023 08:52

GrammarTeacher · 10/11/2023 06:37

Because they're stirring it up. The only explanation is they want violence. Witness Braverman's op Ed in the Times yesterday when she managed to somehow insult all of Northern Ireland.

Quite. She is abhorrent, her language is so dangerous especially when it is coming from the Home Secretary.
Put very well by Colum Eastwood in quote below from the Guardian:
Colum Eastwood, the MP for Foyle and leader of the SDLP, the nationalist party whose founding member, John Hume, won a Nobel prize for his championing of the peace process in Northern Ireland, called Braverman a “pound-shop Enoch Powell”.
“The comments comparing the proposed Armistice Day protests against the appalling bombardment of civilians in Gaza with the marching tradition in Northern Ireland are an exercise in what can only be described as aggressive ignorance,” he said. “Ignorance of the conditions faced by the civilian population in Gaza, ignorance of the role of the Met police, ignorance of the complex history and traditions of marching and protest in Northern Ireland. She has managed to offend just about everyone – no mean feat in a divided society.
“The comments are far below the standard that should be expected from a senior government minister. The only appropriate action now is her removal from office but given the systemic weakness of this government, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if she remained.”

She is most definitely ignorant, I digress but even her suggestion that living in tents is a lifestyle choice made by some people absolutely clueless

queenofarles · 10/11/2023 08:50

These protestors do not speak for the majority here in London…they have come here to deliberately try to disrupt and intimidate.

please stop exaggerating and spreading misinformation, Just because you want to silence any protest against the atrocities of the Israeli Government doesn’t mean you can just make things up .
But I’m pretty sure that some people will take offence in just about anything .

and while we are at , I suggest you stop trying to paint these people as uncouth trouble makers being wheeled out every weekend .

LittleMooli · 10/11/2023 08:46

AdrianaLaCerva · 10/11/2023 08:26

Also please note that thousands of these protestors are being bussed in to London from outside in organised events. These protestors do not speak for the majority here in London…they have come here to deliberately try to disrupt and intimidate.

I don't think it really matters where they come from? People are free to move around the country

OP posts:
LittleMooli · 10/11/2023 08:45

EasternStandard · 10/11/2023 07:57

Oh gosh. Why though? I am not getting the link between the cenotaph, war memorials and Palestine? Or are the war dead somehow linked?

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MissyB1 · 10/11/2023 08:29

There was never going to be a problem. certain sections of the media, some right wing groups, and our Home Secretary, decided to pretend there would be in order to whip up hate and division.

Notonthestairs · 10/11/2023 08:28

It's actually down to the application of relevant legislation whether any protest march can go ahead, providing it meets the relevant criteria it can go ahead. This applies to any march for any cause.

I am sure people aren't suggesting that the police should operate outside of laws set by Parliament? If the legislation is poorly drafted that is down to whoever produced it.

But absolutely I hope that anyone using inflammatory language (anywhere) is prosecuted. Any group calling for violence is despicable and frankly does their cause no good. I dont think anyone should pretend that ALL those involved in the marches are calling for peace - just as we shouldn't pretend that ALL those marching are there out of hate.

I haven't had a lot of time for the Met over recent years but this weekend I am going to hope that they can move swiftly & effectively when they need to. It's not a job I would want to do.

AdrianaLaCerva · 10/11/2023 08:26

Also please note that thousands of these protestors are being bussed in to London from outside in organised events. These protestors do not speak for the majority here in London…they have come here to deliberately try to disrupt and intimidate.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/11/2023 08:23

MissAtomicBomb1 · 10/11/2023 07:41

I think it could be viewed as disrespectful to hold the march on a weekend where Britain is remembering its own dead.
Doesn't really help the cause with the wider public either.
My opinion, don't expect everyone to share it but like it or not, many do outside of the London/twitter/social media bubble.

Also, what l find more disrespectful is the fact that loads of right wing thugs will be round the Cenotaph on Saturday.

I find the right wing hijack of the whole poppy thing just sick making. And so ironic that the WW2 was about fighting this stuff.

upinaballoon · 10/11/2023 08:20

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/11/2023 08:04

Shouldn’t we be remembering ALL the dead. What’s special about Britain?

Millions have been killed or fought in wars. Why are they unimportant?

Yes, of course you can remember all the dead.

You can also have a debate about the words 'gave their lives' as opposed to 'lives were taken'.

You can also take umbrage at some of the wording on some village memorials. One of my friends used to.

There is nothing special about Britain in the context of people losing their lives in war. It just happens that the Cenotaph in Whitehall, and the tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Westminster Abbey, and the newer memorial to women, also in Whitehall, are in Britain.

I don't see any place where anyone has said that lives other than British ones are unimportant.

Are you going to do something specific on 11th or 12th to remember ALL people killed in wars? If so, what will you do?

AdrianaLaCerva · 10/11/2023 08:19

I’m a bit baffled by the posters saying outside the London bubble people don’t support the marches.

The vast majority of Londoners, myself included, DO NOT support them either. However the police just aren’t interested that the public feel threatened and upset so they are standing by and letting it happen.

Popolop · 10/11/2023 08:14

The marchers want to cause trouble and intimidate UK and Jewish people, they should be banned

The overwhelming vast majority are marching for peace for Palestinian people and want nothing of the sort.

SquirmOfEels · 10/11/2023 08:14

I think marching for peace in an ongoing conflict is an entirely suitable activity during Remembrance.

Routing away from sites that are already in use for the usual events is only sensible (and that might include the side of Parliament Square by the Field Of Remembrance, as that will be open on the Saturday) but aside from that, I don't think it's a problem.

After all, Whitehall is cleared and closed for extensive security checks from the wee small hours of Sunday, so there is no way they can interfere with the Cenotaph service of Remembrance (and I've not seen anything reliably suggesting that's the aim anyhow).

kiki50 · 10/11/2023 08:06

TodayInahurry · 10/11/2023 07:28

The marchers want to cause trouble and intimidate UK and Jewish people, they should be banned

this

Popolop · 10/11/2023 08:05

Suella is stirring the pot though and drooling at the mouth at the thought of violence that she will help to incite through her shameful rhetoric.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/11/2023 08:04

MissAtomicBomb1 · 10/11/2023 07:41

I think it could be viewed as disrespectful to hold the march on a weekend where Britain is remembering its own dead.
Doesn't really help the cause with the wider public either.
My opinion, don't expect everyone to share it but like it or not, many do outside of the London/twitter/social media bubble.

Shouldn’t we be remembering ALL the dead. What’s special about Britain?

Millions have been killed or fought in wars. Why are they unimportant?

Popolop · 10/11/2023 08:04

Marches are every Saturday and one falls on ARMISTICE day and not remembrance day, which is the next day.

EasternStandard · 10/11/2023 08:00

On banning or not, we haven’t taken the same view as France

It’s up to people if they think it’s ok to go ahead

In answer to op some activity has shown previous targets

LadyBird1973 · 10/11/2023 07:59

People died to give us the right to protest, so marches should never be banned. Unless they are inciting violence or hatred. This is where the police fail and why some people are twitchy about a match taking place on remembrance weekend. The police will arrest women who say sex isn't changeable, but ignore people actively supporting terrorist groups.
The Metropolitan police cannot be relied upon for consistency or fairness or even basic competency

queenofarles · 10/11/2023 07:57

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GrammarTeacher · 10/11/2023 07:54

EasternStandard · 10/11/2023 07:45

If you look up Rochdale Cenotaph news it should come up

Also an elderly man attacked for selling poppies in Scotland (not sure on location)

Sadly peaceful memorial sites and people have been targeted already

The elderly man was not attacked in Scotland. Didn't happen. See police statement.
There is NOTHING disrespectful asking for armistice on armistice day. It is arguably the most appropriate day. It's not just about remembering the war dead it's about trying to prevent it happening again. The British Legion don't want it banned!

Aaron95 · 10/11/2023 07:52

EasternStandard · 10/11/2023 07:45

If you look up Rochdale Cenotaph news it should come up

Also an elderly man attacked for selling poppies in Scotland (not sure on location)

Sadly peaceful memorial sites and people have been targeted already

Only the police reviewed the CCTV and decided otherwise. The only actual reports of the assault are in GB News and the Daily Fail. Not the most reliable of sources.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-67363648

EasternStandard · 10/11/2023 07:45

LittleMooli · 10/11/2023 07:40

Ok thanks I'll try and find them

If you look up Rochdale Cenotaph news it should come up

Also an elderly man attacked for selling poppies in Scotland (not sure on location)

Sadly peaceful memorial sites and people have been targeted already

perpetuallytired99 · 10/11/2023 07:44

MissAtomicBomb1 · 10/11/2023 07:41

I think it could be viewed as disrespectful to hold the march on a weekend where Britain is remembering its own dead.
Doesn't really help the cause with the wider public either.
My opinion, don't expect everyone to share it but like it or not, many do outside of the London/twitter/social media bubble.

I think this sums it up well. I do completely appreciate we have the right to protest in this country and that many generations died for that right but I don't agree that the march happening this weekend will necessarily encourage more people to support it, I think it will get a lot of backs up.