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Conflict in the Middle East

‘From the river to the sea’: What does the Palestinian slogan really mean?

64 replies

Ohlalalalala · 09/11/2023 19:10

"In an extended interview with UnHerd this week, Israeli Ambassador to the UK Tzipi Hotovely was confronted with a historic statement in which she claimed that “between the sea and the Jordan River, there needs to be one state, only the state of Israel.” Despite referencing the rhyme back in 2015, when making the case for a one-state solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict, Hotovely maintained that “from the river to the sea” is a genocidal chant when used by pro-Palestine protesters. "

https://unherd.com/thepost/israeli-ambassador-debates-from-the-river-to-the-sea/#:~:text=In%20an%20extended%20interview%20with,2015%2C%20when%20making%20the%20case

Her explanation about why it's OK for her to say it but not for others is simply 😳

This is a good explanatory article about the true meaning:

‘From the river to the sea’: What does the Palestinian slogan really mean?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/2/from-the-river-to-the-sea-what-does-the-palestinian-slogan-really-mean

“It’s important to remember this chant is in English and it doesn’t rhyme in Arabic, it is used in demonstrations in Western countries,” he said. “The controversy has been fabricated to prevent solidarity in the West with the Palestinians.”

‘From the river to the sea’: What does the Palestinian slogan really mean?

Critics have called its use anti-Semitic amid Israel’s war on Gaza. But the slogan has more complex roots.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/2/from-the-river-to-the-sea-what-does-the-palestinian-slogan-really-mean

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starborne · 12/11/2023 17:40

MooFroo · 12/11/2023 16:37

But it seems to be ok for Israel to eradicate Palestine and continue murdering innocent kids…

Has anyone said that?

MooFroo · 12/11/2023 16:37

starborne · 10/11/2023 00:11

I don't think the OP actually cares.

But it seems to be ok for Israel to eradicate Palestine and continue murdering innocent kids…

starborne · 12/11/2023 10:03

Ohlalalalala · 12/11/2023 06:18

They are all jumping on that bandwagon but interestingly everyone is conveniently avoiding commenting on Hotovely's saying it unambiguously and clearly to mean only one thing: “between the sea and the Jordan River, there needs to be one state, only the state of Israel.” So they are OK as long as it means the destruction of Palestine.

Neither are okay IMO. But you seem to think it's fine when the protesters say it.

Ohlalalalala · 12/11/2023 06:18

AboutYouTalk · 11/11/2023 17:25

How is that phrase calling for the destruction of Israel? Please do explain.

Edited

They are all jumping on that bandwagon but interestingly everyone is conveniently avoiding commenting on Hotovely's saying it unambiguously and clearly to mean only one thing: “between the sea and the Jordan River, there needs to be one state, only the state of Israel.” So they are OK as long as it means the destruction of Palestine.

OP posts:
eardefender · 11/11/2023 19:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

starborne · 11/11/2023 18:30

AboutYouTalk · 11/11/2023 17:45

The land that Israel stole/occupied you mean? Israel is the invader/occupier and the British Empire put them there. That’s conveniently forgotten.

So what do you think should happen to the state of Israel and everyone who lives there?

starborne · 11/11/2023 18:30

AboutYouTalk · 11/11/2023 17:25

How is that phrase calling for the destruction of Israel? Please do explain.

Edited

It says that the land from the river to the sea, which contains Israel, should be Palestinian. Therefore not Israeli. Therefore Israel needs to be destroyed.

Bells3032 · 11/11/2023 18:12

AboutYouTalk · 11/11/2023 17:45

The land that Israel stole/occupied you mean? Israel is the invader/occupier and the British Empire put them there. That’s conveniently forgotten.

You asked what the phrase meant. That is what the phrase means. I am telling you. You change the subject. It's annoying. They legally were granted the land in the same way Jordan was, the same way Pakistan was, the USA is surely an occupier by those standards. Aren't most countries

AboutYouTalk · 11/11/2023 17:45

Bells3032 · 11/11/2023 17:37

The meaning of the phase is that palastine will exist from the river Jordan to the medetarian sea. Ie the land that Israel currently exists on ie that Israel will no longer exist

The land that Israel stole/occupied you mean? Israel is the invader/occupier and the British Empire put them there. That’s conveniently forgotten.

Bells3032 · 11/11/2023 17:37

AboutYouTalk · 11/11/2023 17:25

How is that phrase calling for the destruction of Israel? Please do explain.

Edited

The meaning of the phase is that palastine will exist from the river Jordan to the medetarian sea. Ie the land that Israel currently exists on ie that Israel will no longer exist

AboutYouTalk · 11/11/2023 17:25

starborne · 11/11/2023 16:36

You don't think calling for the destruction of Israel is anti-Semitic?

How is that phrase calling for the destruction of Israel? Please do explain.

starborne · 11/11/2023 16:36

AboutYouTalk · 11/11/2023 16:30

From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free is NOT antisemitic. Let’s face it if you say anything Israel’s/zionists don’t like, it’s antisemitism 🙄

You don't think calling for the destruction of Israel is anti-Semitic?

MableT · 11/11/2023 16:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AboutYouTalk · 11/11/2023 16:30

From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free is NOT antisemitic. Let’s face it if you say anything Israel’s/zionists don’t like, it’s antisemitism 🙄

Crispedia · 10/11/2023 22:41

It means different things to different people. For some such as Hamas and their crazy supporters annihilation of Israel, for others a two state or one state solution for both Israelis and Palestinians, or one state including occupied territories for just Israel

However, as the slogan is used by the brutal terrorist group Hamas to mean annihilation of Israel, which is unacceptable - as is just one state for Israel including occupied territories - I think supporters of a return to the peace process between Palestinians and Israelis should probably find some other slogan.

1dayatatime · 10/11/2023 22:19

@Ohlalalalala

Ahh so in addition to hypocrisy you also resort to personal insults.

GetTheWinterQuiltOut · 10/11/2023 21:17

1dayatatime · 09/11/2023 23:11

@Ohlalalalala

"GetTheWinterQuiltOut
its boring to read threads where you just copied and pasted out of articles. Got any thoughts of your own there?

Why did you come to this thread then?"

+++

Maybe to point out that rather than create a genuinely informative thread of explaining "from the river to the sea" all you really did was to copy and paste articles without any thoughts of your own in order to create traffic and whip up division.

Bit pathetic and pointless really isn't it?

and yet my totally non offensive post got deleted for pointing out the op hadn’t made any contribution of their own to the post.

bonkers

HaveALaff · 10/11/2023 19:59

Ohlalalalala · 10/11/2023 09:31

@1dayatatime I thought we were past the stage of whataboutery as it has been used ad nauseam 😒

I wonder why you and others criticising and trying to derail my thread (yet again) are not trying to explain/ justify instead why the Israeli ambassador to the UK has clearly said (when she was deputy foreign minister):

"The international community deals with considerations of morality and justice. Facing this, we have to return to the basic truth of our right to this land. This entire land is ours. All of it, from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River, and we are not here to apologise for this.”

"In a direct challenge to international pressure for a revival of peace talks and criticism of Israel's settlement building in the occupied West Bank, she later added: "We expect as a mater of principle the international community to recognise Israel's right to build homes for Jews in their homeland everywhere."

World should recognise Israel's historic claim to land from river to sea, minister says
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11624355/World-should-recognise-Israels-historic-claim-to-land-from-river-to-sea-minister-says.html

This is a diplomat/ politician who speaks for her country and not a terrorist group. So where's the outrage?

Edited

"We need to get back to the basic truth of our right to this land."

Definitely not the basic truth. No religion should have the power to wipe out a civilisation because it is their God given "right".

structural · 10/11/2023 17:59

So why is it fine for pro-Palestine posters to say it but not Israeli politicians?

Ohlalalalala · 10/11/2023 16:54

1dayatatime · 10/11/2023 14:34

@Ohlalalalala
Your posts:
"@1dayatatime I thought we were past the stage of whataboutery as it has been used ad nauseam 😒

I wonder why you and others criticising and trying to derail my thread (yet again"

Followed by

"So are you defending your beliefs and opinions or attacking me? 🤔
My threads are factual with sources. If you don't agree with any point you're free to give your counter arguments in a polite/ non rude manner. If not, no one is asking for your opinion here."

+++

Your hypocrisy is blatantly transparent.

Biscuit
OP posts:
1dayatatime · 10/11/2023 14:34

@Ohlalalalala
Your posts:
"@1dayatatime I thought we were past the stage of whataboutery as it has been used ad nauseam 😒

I wonder why you and others criticising and trying to derail my thread (yet again"

Followed by

"So are you defending your beliefs and opinions or attacking me? 🤔
My threads are factual with sources. If you don't agree with any point you're free to give your counter arguments in a polite/ non rude manner. If not, no one is asking for your opinion here."

+++

Your hypocrisy is blatantly transparent.

Ohlalalalala · 10/11/2023 13:02

MableT · 10/11/2023 11:45

@Ohlalalalala you really have the cheek to talk about whataboutery. Your sole purpose, in your constant controversial threads, is to heighten tension. You really expect posters not to defend their beliefs and opinions 🙄

So are you defending your beliefs and opinions or attacking me? 🤔
My threads are factual with sources. If you don't agree with any point you're free to give your counter arguments in a polite/ non rude manner. If not, no one is asking for your opinion here.Biscuit

OP posts:
MableT · 10/11/2023 11:45

@Ohlalalalala you really have the cheek to talk about whataboutery. Your sole purpose, in your constant controversial threads, is to heighten tension. You really expect posters not to defend their beliefs and opinions 🙄

Ohlalalalala · 10/11/2023 09:31

@1dayatatime I thought we were past the stage of whataboutery as it has been used ad nauseam 😒

I wonder why you and others criticising and trying to derail my thread (yet again) are not trying to explain/ justify instead why the Israeli ambassador to the UK has clearly said (when she was deputy foreign minister):

"The international community deals with considerations of morality and justice. Facing this, we have to return to the basic truth of our right to this land. This entire land is ours. All of it, from the [Mediterranean] Sea to the [Jordan] River, and we are not here to apologise for this.”

"In a direct challenge to international pressure for a revival of peace talks and criticism of Israel's settlement building in the occupied West Bank, she later added: "We expect as a mater of principle the international community to recognise Israel's right to build homes for Jews in their homeland everywhere."

World should recognise Israel's historic claim to land from river to sea, minister says
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11624355/World-should-recognise-Israels-historic-claim-to-land-from-river-to-sea-minister-says.html

This is a diplomat/ politician who speaks for her country and not a terrorist group. So where's the outrage?

World should recognise Israel's historic claim to land from river to sea, minister says

Speech by new deputy foreign minister Tzipi Hotovely beseeches diplomats to use historical justice arguments advanced by religious figures in making Israel's case abroad

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11624355/World-should-recognise-Israels-historic-claim-to-land-from-river-to-sea-minister-says.html

OP posts:
1dayatatime · 10/11/2023 07:46

@Creatingusernamesismygame

The protests are to show solidarity to the world for Palestine and to ask for a ceasefire. The protests are also directed at the U.K. government because rishi sunak said the whole of the U.K. stands with Israel.

+++

Out of interest would you protest to show solidarity with the 1.7 million Afghans being forcibly deported from Pakistan or the genocide taking place in Sudan against black Africans?

Both Sudan and Pakistan receive funding from the UK Government and quite frankly the plight of these people need the publicity as currently no one gives a shit or even knows.

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