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Conflict in the Middle East

I have a question about Palestinian children.

111 replies

Rainbowsandbutterflies1990 · 08/11/2023 18:39

What I've been wondering if an innocent child has just had their whole family killed by a bomb, there whole city bombed so they have nothing, how r they going to not being against who is bombing them. There is going to be trauma. They could be against what hamas belives, but they equally could be angry and understandably just in being anti Israel (goverment as that's who is carrying out this) how is it realistic to expect the Palestinians to be happy Israel is taking out hamas. And killing their families, their friends and flattening their cities in the process.

I copied this from another thread as think it's a valid question I have no idea why it's highlighted.

OP posts:
EasterIssland · 08/11/2023 21:43

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maybe is time for you to leave the news and internet so you don’t have to get sick of seeing parents saying goodbye forever to their beautiful kids that didn’t choose to be killed as part of a war

Happyvalleyfan · 08/11/2023 21:41

Alcemeg · 08/11/2023 21:25

You really think they're going to share the details of their military strategy?!

Well they could do better than contradicting themselves!

Happyvalleyfan · 08/11/2023 21:40

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I am sure all mothers would rather their children were still alive.

I find your post offensive and Islamophobic.

Do a thought experiment - in your comment replace Islam with Zionism and Palestine by Israel.

Alcemeg · 08/11/2023 21:25

Happyvalleyfan · 08/11/2023 21:23

On BBC today- their war correspondent with the IDF in Gaza said as much - there is no clear end game. Various options have also come out from Israeli government- from one extreme to another (from no responsibility for the strip to complete control of security).

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/07/netanyahus-vague-vision-for-gaza-after-war-may-open-up-new-chapter-of-violence

You really think they're going to share the details of their military strategy?!

Happyvalleyfan · 08/11/2023 21:23

Alcemeg · 08/11/2023 20:36

How do you know there's nothing strategic about the Israeli campaign? Are you involved in their intelligence meetings?

On BBC today- their war correspondent with the IDF in Gaza said as much - there is no clear end game. Various options have also come out from Israeli government- from one extreme to another (from no responsibility for the strip to complete control of security).

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/07/netanyahus-vague-vision-for-gaza-after-war-may-open-up-new-chapter-of-violence

Netanyahu’s vague vision for Gaza after war may open up new chapter of violence | Israel-Hamas war | The Guardian

PM’s once unthinkable assertion Israel will reclaim security in territory would come with responsibilities towards Palestinians

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/07/netanyahus-vague-vision-for-gaza-after-war-may-open-up-new-chapter-of-violence

HeidiInTheBigCity · 08/11/2023 21:00

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Somewhat "elaborated" form of this:

If, say, the British army had brutally attacked Belgium (and - as the UN Secretary General rightly said: "not in a vacuum" - 7 October, as horrible as it was - is not the beginning of history) and, in retaliation, the Belgian armed forced had come in and slaughtered your mum, your dad, all of your uncles and all but one of your aunts (the person who ended up raising you, having lost all of her own children) ...

... you would not precisely be likely to grow up to think "Belgians are great - we Brits sort of suck, though, especially our Army", now, would you?

Ecdysiast · 08/11/2023 20:59

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How many Palestinians do you know, @KinS24 ? On what basis are you making such a claim?

JSMill · 08/11/2023 20:54

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NotTerfNorCis · 08/11/2023 20:44

actually think there's a kind of racism in the narrative of radicalisation. The people who use the term seem to consider some races as being governed by emotion and as people who need to be treated as tinderboxes of anger, waiting to explode.

What 'race' wouldn't react with anger and trauma to living through the kind of horrors the Palestinians are suffering?

Rainbowsandbutterflies1990 · 08/11/2023 20:44

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I'm trying to deconstruct your last sentence. Your initial thoughts when seeing a parent grieving the death of their child( ! ) is to feel so sick of declaring their children 'martyrs' just googled the meaning as didn't know. If ur child has been killed due to a bomb (which I'm assuming this is what u mean) why wouldn't it be about their beliefs?

OP posts:
notsoready4school · 08/11/2023 20:44

TheScenicWay · 08/11/2023 19:27

I was just thinking that your question is probably pointless as it seems there won't be any Palestinians left soon.

The problem is for Israel these pesky Palestinians just don’t die and just won’t leave. Either they will have to kill them all in broad daylight for the world to see or they will have to live perpetually in fear of retaliation for the horrible consequences of these actions.

After 7 October they know there will be consequences, it is just a matter of when and where but not a question of if. The number of angry children that will come out of this with nothing to lose and only hate in their heart for Israel will be scary. Moreover now a lot of that feeling for Israel is being played out in the news in many other countries too so it isn’t just Palestinians that Israel needs to worry about.

the op is right. Israel leaves no option on the table for an alternative outcome for its people or the people of Palestine. Only fear.

HeidiInTheBigCity · 08/11/2023 20:42

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Christian Palestinians say "martyr" ("shaheed" in Arabic), too! While we tend to translate it as "martyr" in English, the connotations are not quite the same. In fact, etymologically speaking, a "shaheed" is someone who "bears witness" (as opposed to someone willingly dying for their religious belief, which is what the English word "martyr" implies).

Long story short: more complicated than and, no, you cannot take a poor translation that misses out on nuance as the basis for "Palestinians are a death cult" - they are not! They cry and suffer as much as we do when their loved ones die!

KinS24 · 08/11/2023 20:37

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Alcemeg · 08/11/2023 20:36

FOJN · 08/11/2023 20:23

Israel is very clearly acting on emotion, there does not appear to be anything strategic about their campaign unless the objective is genocide.

What is Israel's excuse for the violence in the West Bank. Are you saying that all Palestinians are Islamic extremists? Sounds a bit racist to me.

The Palestinians are not responsible for the Holocaust. Are you suggesting they should pay the price for all the antisemitic persecution carried out by anyone else?

The Israeli government are extremists but for some reason they seem untouchable and any criticism of them is labelled antisemitic so it's a bit rich to accuse Muslims of being easily provoked.

The Islamic extremists kill more Muslims than anyone else, your average Muslim is no more impressed by them than you or I.

How do you know there's nothing strategic about the Israeli campaign? Are you involved in their intelligence meetings?

MissyB1 · 08/11/2023 20:34

I find it so hard to imagine any kind of a future for these poor children - the ones that actually survive that is. They will be so damaged, and so many of them will be orphaned, not just orphaned but no extended family left alive either. The scale of their trauma and loss is just enormous 😢

HeidiInTheBigCity · 08/11/2023 20:28

Here is a (actually not at all) "fun" thing I observed upon first arriving in Palestine some 20 years ago - it might answer some of the question in the OP, but not definitively so:

You see, I am a woman of pretty much exactly average height for someone of my exact demographic. Not short, not tall, just ... average!

Palestine, for me, was the first time I, literally, got to speak with men "eye to eye", as in: men my age were the same height as myself! Other women were just tiny!

But the same was not true about their younger brothers, who towered over me!

I mentioned this, as a side remark, to an acquaintance of mine, a Palestinian doctor. She said "oh, but, yes, of course! That would be because the men your age will have spent their formative childhood years during the 1st intifada. They were malnourished and traumatised. Their younger brothers grew up in relatively more peaceful times."

That shocked me!

FOJN · 08/11/2023 20:23

EsmaCannonball · 08/11/2023 19:44

Israeli children also suffer from PTSD. Sderot was one of the places attacked on October 7th, but even before then up to 94% of children there were found to show signs of PTSD due to the level of rocket attacks and alerts in the region. I imagine that all of the children who have been kidnapped or who witnessed their families and neighbours being tortured and murdered will be severely traumatised. The two children who were held at gunpoint by the men who had just executed their 18 year old sister in front of them and who later frogmarched their father away to who knows what fate will never get over that.

I actually think there's a kind of racism in the narrative of radicalisation. The people who use the term seem to consider some races as being governed by emotion and as people who need to be treated as tinderboxes of anger, waiting to explode. Other races are treated as people of reason and rationality who are expected never to react with violence no matter how badly they are assaulted. Islamofascism is afforded the excuse, understandably, that bombings and settlers cause radicalisation, but then even satirical cartoons or 'blasphemous' books are seen as grounds for provocation. Meanwhile, despite centuries of pogroms, the Holocaust, the neverending terrorist attacks in Israel and October 7th, Jewish people are condemned for any feelings other than suicidal pacifism.

Israel is very clearly acting on emotion, there does not appear to be anything strategic about their campaign unless the objective is genocide.

What is Israel's excuse for the violence in the West Bank. Are you saying that all Palestinians are Islamic extremists? Sounds a bit racist to me.

The Palestinians are not responsible for the Holocaust. Are you suggesting they should pay the price for all the antisemitic persecution carried out by anyone else?

The Israeli government are extremists but for some reason they seem untouchable and any criticism of them is labelled antisemitic so it's a bit rich to accuse Muslims of being easily provoked.

The Islamic extremists kill more Muslims than anyone else, your average Muslim is no more impressed by them than you or I.

Ecdysiast · 08/11/2023 20:17

@Rainbowsandbutterflies1990
It's an important question, OP. Israeli journalist Gideon Levy described Israel's 16-year siege of Gaza as "an experiment in human beings". This infographic on the way it impacts children might help address your question:

I have a question about Palestinian children.
Rainbowsandbutterflies1990 · 08/11/2023 20:16

Holyguacbatman · 08/11/2023 20:06

My MIL who is a psychologist worked in Israel for a few years and her focus was on children who had witnessed terror attacks. Obviously no child should witness anything like that. I will however say that during her time in Israel she got well and truly sucked into the government propaganda machine and has some very questionable views as a result.

I am absolutely shocked and horrified by the extent of the bombing in Gaza and am so sad those poor kids will be so affected. It also must be devastating that no one is helping them! Imagine being ignored by the international community when your country is dying.

Edited

It's truely horrific, I'm so sad for the innocent children. They do not have anything to do with Hamas. I have found it pretty shocking some of the responses to my question, basically assuming that all children who are angry about their lives being ruined would just automatically join Hamas.

OP posts:
Holyguacbatman · 08/11/2023 20:06

My MIL who is a psychologist worked in Israel for a few years and her focus was on children who had witnessed terror attacks. Obviously no child should witness anything like that. I will however say that during her time in Israel she got well and truly sucked into the government propaganda machine and has some very questionable views as a result.

I am absolutely shocked and horrified by the extent of the bombing in Gaza and am so sad those poor kids will be so affected. It also must be devastating that no one is helping them! Imagine being ignored by the international community when your country is dying.

EsmaCannonball · 08/11/2023 20:02

Hamas has between 30 000 and 40 000 fighters and not all of them are Palestinian. Some people are just committed jihadists, they don't have some poetic origin story. Jihadists have felt this way about Jewish people for centuries.

Rainbowsandbutterflies1990 · 08/11/2023 20:02

EsmaCannonball · 08/11/2023 19:44

Israeli children also suffer from PTSD. Sderot was one of the places attacked on October 7th, but even before then up to 94% of children there were found to show signs of PTSD due to the level of rocket attacks and alerts in the region. I imagine that all of the children who have been kidnapped or who witnessed their families and neighbours being tortured and murdered will be severely traumatised. The two children who were held at gunpoint by the men who had just executed their 18 year old sister in front of them and who later frogmarched their father away to who knows what fate will never get over that.

I actually think there's a kind of racism in the narrative of radicalisation. The people who use the term seem to consider some races as being governed by emotion and as people who need to be treated as tinderboxes of anger, waiting to explode. Other races are treated as people of reason and rationality who are expected never to react with violence no matter how badly they are assaulted. Islamofascism is afforded the excuse, understandably, that bombings and settlers cause radicalisation, but then even satirical cartoons or 'blasphemous' books are seen as grounds for provocation. Meanwhile, despite centuries of pogroms, the Holocaust, the neverending terrorist attacks in Israel and October 7th, Jewish people are condemned for any feelings other than suicidal pacifism.

After reading ur comment a few times , I'm struggling to find out it relates to my question. I could be talking about any city/country/race/religion. If someone comes to bomb and wipe out ur family ur friends ur city your existence, I doesn't need to be radicalisation or indoctrination.

it could be just a natural response to be angry and hurt and have trauma and not agree/not want or feel anger at the people who did this. And yes it can turn in to radicalisation where for example u want revenge to everyone who is from that country who has just bombed u that would be more radicalisation. But im just struggling and dont belive the natural human response is to be grateful and accepting. I also don't belive these children will automatically join Hamas. Or that should be what is only thought or expected.

OP posts:
Totalblindnessofthesoul · 08/11/2023 19:56

I read on here (so haven't verified it) that 85% of Hamas fighters have at least one parent killed by Israel.

They grew up angry and so will surviving children here.

EsmaCannonball · 08/11/2023 19:44

Israeli children also suffer from PTSD. Sderot was one of the places attacked on October 7th, but even before then up to 94% of children there were found to show signs of PTSD due to the level of rocket attacks and alerts in the region. I imagine that all of the children who have been kidnapped or who witnessed their families and neighbours being tortured and murdered will be severely traumatised. The two children who were held at gunpoint by the men who had just executed their 18 year old sister in front of them and who later frogmarched their father away to who knows what fate will never get over that.

I actually think there's a kind of racism in the narrative of radicalisation. The people who use the term seem to consider some races as being governed by emotion and as people who need to be treated as tinderboxes of anger, waiting to explode. Other races are treated as people of reason and rationality who are expected never to react with violence no matter how badly they are assaulted. Islamofascism is afforded the excuse, understandably, that bombings and settlers cause radicalisation, but then even satirical cartoons or 'blasphemous' books are seen as grounds for provocation. Meanwhile, despite centuries of pogroms, the Holocaust, the neverending terrorist attacks in Israel and October 7th, Jewish people are condemned for any feelings other than suicidal pacifism.

TheScenicWay · 08/11/2023 19:27

I was just thinking that your question is probably pointless as it seems there won't be any Palestinians left soon.