I have a question about Palestinian children.

On the original question though - I agree, it is hard to see these children in Gaza growing up with anything but loathing for Israel and that is a tragedy.

For many of the preceding centuries there was a 'colonial empire' - the Ottoman empire - which kept order and maintained relationships. That doesn't mean nothing happened (the Damascus affair is the most famous example of pogroms and torture of jews across the middle east - in the 1840s) but it was much rarer.

But after the Ottoman empire was dismantled after WWI - but before the creation of the Jewish state - there was a very big rise in attacks against Jews in the Middle East. In the 1930s and 40s (before 1948) there were attacks in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Yemen.

In Iraq in 1941 mobs sought out and massacred as many Jewish families as they could.

But yes it did get much worse after the state of Israel was created - this is an interesting article on what happened to Iraqi jews.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-expulsion-that-backfired-when-iraq-kicked-out-its-jews/

It is true though that the major expulsion of Jews from the Arab world (mostly, but not all, into Israel) - about 900,000 of them - occurred after the creation of Israel as a state. All those people lost their assets and property - many were forced to sign papers that they were agreeing to all their property being confiscated.

Today over half of the people in Israel are middle eastern in origin.

@Xenia
Except the Israel-Palestine conflict is not about Jews Vs Muslims. It's about land. If it had been Scientologists (with the full support of the Western world) on a quest for a homeland who displaced the Palestinians, the result would have been no different.

I am also grateful we live in a country where we can have different views. it is one reason people flock to the UK. I support Israel in this and some support the other side.

Pakistan is currently expelling 1.7m Afghans who are undocumented by the way (as is Iran) (so not too many fewer than the 2m people who are in Gaza) because in part they are causing too many terror attacks or so Pakistan says (a country to which the UK spends £300m a year in aid). We are certainly ploughing a lot more into Muslim countries than the one Jewish country on the planet.

"Some people are just committed jihadists, they don't have some poetic origin story. Jihadists have felt this way about Jewish people for centuries." - @EsmaCannonball

If there are so many "committed jihadists" in the region who are hell bent on destroying Jews and have been "for centuries" then how were the Jews of the region able to maintain a continuous presence there in all the years before Israel's creation?

I am sorry you have felt bullied @Alcemeg
If you feel that posts are not appropriate- you should report them.

There has been some vigorous debate in this forum- and there are clearly different opinions. It’s great that we live in a Democracy and have a legal system that overall supports this.

This has nothing to do with the original question- Palestinian children

Agreed, I thought @EsmaCannonball 's post was (typically of them) interesting and thoughtful. Unfortunately, these threads are swiftly taken over by posters who bully anyone not participating in their banner-waving.

WarmWinterSun · Yesterday 18:51
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Equally, why would they support Hamas for its evil and idiotic attack on Israel, it’s mandate to wipe out all Jews”

Because as they will see it, Israel killed their family. Obviously.

@SomeoneBurntTheToastAgain well it's not though is it? Or do we only care about children one side of that fence? War is affecting them all.

I think it because that is what President Biden has said to the news. Of course, he and his mouthpieces could be lying, but the fact of them briefing it to the world at large is a type of public pushing back.

🙄 Pointless derail.

@Hullobaby there ' big terror HQ' is in qatar

Israeli hasbara has always positioned any Palestinian with being uncivilized, evil and murderous. Even babies 🤔. It's pure racism, and you can see from some posters on here that they have internalised these messages. Before 7/10 approx 50% of Gazan children suffered from chronic PTSD and Lord knows what the situation will be in a years time. I've seen numerous appeals on social media for Arabic speaking psychologists/psychiatrists to do work online as the amount of children who are displaying severe trauma responses is staggering. Children have lost the ability to speak and walk due to shock. It's utterly heartbreaking.

Thats fair- but in the context of this thread about the enduring impact on Palestinian children, the longer term plans will be important.

What Israel is doing in Gaza makes no sense unless their plan is to kill everyone there. I hope that is not the plan.

In a nutshell. What do you think they’re doing day and night? After the atrocities of 7/10, Netanyahu is attempting to divert attention from the fuck-up of the security services on the Israeli border and has embarked on a venge-fest which will probably result in the annihilation of Gaza. And everyone is just watching it happen. And saying that those protesting against it are being disrespectful! WTAF!

Why do you think America will draw a line there? I’m genuinely confused by what is going to stop them? The world has no sway on America and America doesn’t care what little angry spoilt brother Israel does in the Middle East. Why would they care about Gaza when they don’t about the occupation in the West Bank.

Agreed!

And the US have GOT TO push back against this, essentially, in order to maintain any semblance of credibility.

Personally, I think it is "too little, too late" and that irreperable damage may already have been done to the so-called Western led liberal world order.

Maybe, if Ukraine had not happened. But it did!

To be fair, there is a saying about military strategies and it goes something like “no plan survives contact with the enemy”

All militaries suffer from this, Israel is no exception. Nor is Hamas, or any terrorist organisation as terrorists are a type of militants.

Plans are made, attacks happen, unforeseen circumstances ensue and new plans emerge, rinse and repeat.

An exit strategy is not a military strategy though and I think while Israel had a clear idea of the objectives it wanted to achieve beyond overthrowing Hamas, the issue now is that it may not be politically acceptable to the UN and wider international community. The US is pushing back on Israel’s stated intentions to have complete military freedom of movement and control of all security in Gaza, which means re-occupying it as a militarised zone under martial law.

I also think it’s good not to report - so people can see the racism underlying some of the pro-Israeli views expressed here. It really is appalling.

People rush to call antisemitism if there is any criticism of Israeli government policy- this is despite people also calling out the dreadfulness of Hamas at the same time.

That is some REALLY FUCKING RACIST and DEHUMANISING SHIT right there!

As per my usual policy: so long as nobody is calling for violence, I shall not be reporting it. I believe in free speech, and I believe in humanity and that stuff like this discredits itself!

But ... go on the internet! The pictures of Palestinian mothers being completely broken over the death of their children are out there! They hurt to watch! But you should probably watch them! (I usually do not advocate for people watching it - but ... yeah, you should!)

I don’t understand what is wrong about Islam? What do you mean “absolute grip of Islam”? You do know that Israel has Christian Palestinians too? They are a minority, but they do live in Gaza and West Bank. Look closely and you will see Imans and Orthodox priests both at the graveyards and at prayer/vigils at the hospitals.

The “martyrs” thing has a different religious and cultural meaning in Islam than it does in Christianity. It is more like how Christians will say a child that has died is “an angel now” or “with the angels”. If you see interviews with Christian Gazans, they do say this- one interview a father lost his three children when the church was bombed he says over and over “they killed my angels” and “my children are angels now”

Both calling a victim, especially a child, an angel or martyr simply means that they are a total innocent who goes straight to paradise/heaven.

That is why part of the formulaic of the Muslim saying they are a martyr is to also to say that you envy them. And in Christian faith the formulaic is to say that you hope to join them with the angels. Because they’re in paradise/heaven and you hope to go there too when it’s your time to die.

It is like the cubs of the caliphate in ISIS, sadly and nearly 50% of Gaza is under 18. We all know what ISIS did - breeding lots of sons and arming them with guns at age 10. This is what Israel is up against. The solution is not giving in to Hamas so it can invade Israel again and again and ultimately drive every jew from Israel. it is standing up to Hamas as it is now doing so Hamas never again dares to invade israel and slit the throats of babies.

You know there is a difference between,

"there is nothing strategic about their campaign"

and

"there does not appear to be anything strategic about their campaign".

Let me know if I can help you further with your reading comprehension.