UN's Guterres: Gaza deaths show something "clearly wrong" with Israel operation

Ohlalalalala · 2023-11-08T16:35:36+00:00

In an interview with Reuters, United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said on Wednesday that the number of civilians killed in the Gaza Strip shows that there is something "clearly wrong" with Israel's military operations in Gaza. [[https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/reuters-next-un-chief-says-gaza-deaths-show-something-wrong-with-israel-2023-11-08 https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/reuters-next-un-chief-says-gaza-deaths-show-something-wrong-with-israel-2023-11-08/]] This is a very mild criticism of the genociders. Baby steps.

NotTerfNorCis · 09/11/2023 22:37

If Hamas released the prisoners tomorrow, returned the bodies of those they have already killed and laid down their arms, the IDF would not kill another Palestinian.

What kind of naivety is this? There has been a constant stream of Palestinian deaths, killed either by the IDF or settlers.

notimagain · 09/11/2023 07:46

. It's even possible that some parties would plant "protesters" with the aim of creating trouble and inciting incidents just to damage the image of the peaceful protests.

Not impossible but that sounds a bit like getting the excuses early.

I'm sure the XRW will be held responsible for any trouble that occurs (hopefully it won't)....

Certainly the extreme left have never caused problems at these sort mass protest events...say's nobody, ever, who was a student during some of the mass protests in the last 60s or early 70s....

Original poster

Ohlalalalala · 09/11/2023 07:20

queenofarles · 08/11/2023 21:21

Do you know who else said "between the sea and the Jordan River, there needs to be one state, only the state of Israel."? Tzipi Hotovely , the same person who said that from the river to the sea chant is anti Semitic and genocidal.
oh the Irony !

You're right! 😡

https://unherd.com/thepost/israeli-ambassador-debates-from-the-river-to-the-sea/#:~:text=In%20an%20extended%20interview%20with,2015%2C%20when%20making%20the%20case

"In an extended interview with UnHerd this week, Israeli Ambassador to the UK Tzipi Hotovely was confronted with a historic statement in which she claimed that “between the sea and the Jordan River, there needs to be one state, only the state of Israel.” Despite referencing the rhyme back in 2015, when making the case for a one-state solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict, Hotovely maintained that “from the river to the sea” is a genocidal chant when used by pro-Palestine protesters.

"Hotovely, who has been in her current role since 2020, has been outspoken in her support for a one-state solution and has strongly opposed the freeze on settlement construction. After the Ambassador stated that “from the river to the sea” is a genocidal chant, Sayers pointed out:

"In an earlier interview you gave before you were Ambassador, and this is a direct quote, you say, ‘Between the sea and the Jordan River, there needs to be one state, only the state of Israel.’ How can you condemn people for chanting ‘between the river and the sea’ in favour of Palestine, when you say the opposite in favour of Israel?

FREDDIE SAYERS

Hotovely responded:

What I’m saying, and what they’re saying are totally different things. They don’t think that Jews should exist. This is a genocide intention. […] I’m not saying ‘from the river to the sea’. I’m speaking about coexistence […] They’re speaking about genociding the Jewish people. Can you actually understand what a huge gap there is? What they’re saying means not even one Jew between the river and the sea. Israel was never speaking about no Arab presence. We have 20% Arabs in our country. They are a minority that used to have the third largest party in Israel. So we are proud of coexistence.

TZIPI HOTOVELY

Met with the suggestion that protestors in the West are unlikely to be calling for genocide, and that it’s more probable that “free Palestine” means Arabs living in harmony with Jews in a country called Palestine, Hotovely denied that activists’ intentions tend to be benign:

If that were the case, they would chant for the ‘one state solution’, but that’s not what they’re saying. They’re saying, basically, Palestine will be free, and Palestine will be free from Jews. And this is really, really scary.

TZIPI HOTOVELY

Israeli Ambassador debates 'From the River to the Sea'

In an extended interview with UnHerd this week, Israeli Ambassador to the UK Tzipi Hotovely was confronted with a historic statement in which she claimed that “between the sea and the Jordan River, there needs to be one state, only the state of Israel....

https://unherd.com/thepost/israeli-ambassador-debates-from-the-river-to-the-sea#:~:text=In%20an%20extended%20interview%20with,2015%2C%20when%20making%20the%20case

OP posts:

queenofarles · 08/11/2023 21:21

Do you know who else said "between the sea and the Jordan River, there needs to be one state, only the state of Israel."? Tzipi Hotovely , the same person who said that from the river to the sea chant is anti Semitic and genocidal.
oh the Irony !

Parkingt111 · 08/11/2023 20:14

notsoready4school · 08/11/2023 19:48

What about the Likud party charter? It also states that there will only be Israel ‘from the river to the sea’. The only difference I can now see between Israel government and Hamas is that one of them has more weapons. Both completely devoid of humanity

Actually one more difference is that unlike Hamas where no one really supports them the IsraelI government has normal people like you egging them on to kill children. How they have blinded normal people, mothers/fathers/grandparents to believe their type of human is genuinely superior and worth more than another human is really mind blowing.

Show quote history

Many don't realise that this was in the charter long before Hamas even existed.

notsoready4school · 08/11/2023 19:48

WatTyler · 08/11/2023 17:11

The UN is dominated by anti-Semites and nothing it has to say is worth listening to, and it certainly cuts no ice with Israel. The only genocide being planned is of the Israelis by Hamas. as stated in their founding Covenant: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/
If Hamas released the prisoners tomorrow, returned the bodies of those they have already killed and laid down their arms, the IDF would not kill another Palestinian. They have no wish to kill non-combatant Palestinians, but if Hamas persists in using them as human shields, it is inevitable.
Hamas will not give up, so Israel will have to destroy them.
There will be no ceasefire.

What about the Likud party charter? It also states that there will only be Israel ‘from the river to the sea’. The only difference I can now see between Israel government and Hamas is that one of them has more weapons. Both completely devoid of humanity

Actually one more difference is that unlike Hamas where no one really supports them the IsraelI government has normal people like you egging them on to kill children. How they have blinded normal people, mothers/fathers/grandparents to believe their type of human is genuinely superior and worth more than another human is really mind blowing.

EsmaCannonball · 08/11/2023 19:46

I suppose we should be grateful Kurt Waldheim's no longer in charge.

MotherofPearl · 08/11/2023 19:40

I see @WatTyler hasn't been able to supply any evidence for their ridiculous claim about the UN teeming with anti-Semites...

notsoready4school · 08/11/2023 19:33

BethDuttonsTwin · 08/11/2023 17:17

it won’t matter what he says, the majority of the world knows it is wrong but unfortunately they are the ones without the power and in some cases courage to do

No most of the world don't agree that it's wrong. There are tons of opposing views. You're just stuck in the echo chamber of Mumsnet thinking the whole world must agree with your "goodness" and that you're all on the same, hand wringing, competitive caring page

😩😩😩😩 <- MNetters.

@WatTyler absolutely spot on.

The UN general council already voted on this. This is a fact.

ssd · 08/11/2023 19:33

We should be able to see new posters just joined. Too many plants.

Clavinova · 08/11/2023 19:14

Parkingt111
Most amount of UN workers ever killed in a conflict since its inception

Not unsurprising - UNWRA has over 13,000 members of staff on the ground in Gaza (mostly refugees themselves).

Original poster

Ohlalalalala · 08/11/2023 19:01

feralunderclass · 08/11/2023 18:49

Oh yes indeed, because prior to 7/10 the IDF have never killed a single Palestinian child 🤔

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Didn't you know? They were the most moral army in the world! 🙄
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2023/10/16/the-myth-of-israels-most-moral

The myth of Israel’s ‘most moral army’

Manipulating international law allows Israel to evade condemnation for its war crimes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/opinions/2023/10/16/the-myth-of-israels-most-moral

OP posts:

feralunderclass · 08/11/2023 18:49

WatTyler · 08/11/2023 17:11

The UN is dominated by anti-Semites and nothing it has to say is worth listening to, and it certainly cuts no ice with Israel. The only genocide being planned is of the Israelis by Hamas. as stated in their founding Covenant: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/
If Hamas released the prisoners tomorrow, returned the bodies of those they have already killed and laid down their arms, the IDF would not kill another Palestinian. They have no wish to kill non-combatant Palestinians, but if Hamas persists in using them as human shields, it is inevitable.
Hamas will not give up, so Israel will have to destroy them.
There will be no ceasefire.

Oh yes indeed, because prior to 7/10 the IDF have never killed a single Palestinian child 🤔

EasterIssland · 08/11/2023 18:48

Ohlalalalala · 08/11/2023 18:41

😂eskerrik asko

I hope it's correct!

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It’s :)

Original poster

Ohlalalalala · 08/11/2023 18:41

EasterIssland · 08/11/2023 18:32

Welcome onboard @WatTyler hope you enjoy being in mn and just make sure you visit other areas of mn and not only the Israel related ones 🤔

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😂eskerrik asko

I hope it's correct!

OP posts:

EasterIssland · 08/11/2023 18:32

WatTyler · 08/11/2023 17:11

The UN is dominated by anti-Semites and nothing it has to say is worth listening to, and it certainly cuts no ice with Israel. The only genocide being planned is of the Israelis by Hamas. as stated in their founding Covenant: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/
If Hamas released the prisoners tomorrow, returned the bodies of those they have already killed and laid down their arms, the IDF would not kill another Palestinian. They have no wish to kill non-combatant Palestinians, but if Hamas persists in using them as human shields, it is inevitable.
Hamas will not give up, so Israel will have to destroy them.
There will be no ceasefire.

Welcome onboard @WatTyler hope you enjoy being in mn and just make sure you visit other areas of mn and not only the Israel related ones 🤔

EasterIssland · 08/11/2023 18:30

He’s been critising Israel for a while. He’s words about the 7-10 didn’t come out of nowehere nearly cost him the job. Israel had a tantrum and demanded to fire him and as UN didn’t do as requested Israel decided not to allow any more workers in Israel.

Original poster

Ohlalalalala · 08/11/2023 18:28

Weddingpuzzle · 08/11/2023 17:55

And even that support is belittled and condemned. All those people marching, who are in the main marching as a gesture of humanity more than anything else, are subject to really hostile rhetoric - I've seen protestors called pro terrorists, anti semitic, naive, leftist, Hamas supporting, pointless and on and on. Even our politicians are calling it a hate march.

It is a right for a human to look at anti human strategy laid out bare in a mass punishment and say 'I want to show that I don't believe you should treat people that way'. It's nobody else right to say an individual can't/shouldn't use their voice and have an opinion. Even if you don't agree with it. It's a a given that people have to state that Hamas are awful but it doesn't work both ways does it? Supporters of Israel ask people to denounce an anti humanity strategy on one side but accept an anti humanity strategy on the other because...

Exactly.
Look at the propaganda regarding the upcoming pro Palestinian protests on the 11th. They even wanted to stop them!!! Is this Britain 2023? The mass media are trying to smear the protesters. It's even possible that some parties would plant "protesters" with the aim of creating trouble and inciting incidents just to damage the image of the peaceful protests. I hope the organisers wouldn't fall for any provocation of this kind.

OP posts:

Original poster

Ohlalalalala · 08/11/2023 18:12

NmeChngeFail · 08/11/2023 17:30

This is a lie. Pre Oct 7th the IDF were killing innocent Palestinians and if Oct 7th didn't happen they still would've been.

In the past month the Israeli government has kidnapped more Palestinian hostages than those Hamas took. This is not being mentioned in the media.

The IDF are helping illegal, crazed, settlers take land and force evictions in the West Bank, they were also doing this pre Oct 7th.

Israel has precise military weapons yet they open plan bomb a city to catch a few targets. They bombed a hospital and then said it was a mistake and the target wasn't there.

They are trained and taught that all Palestinians from a young age hate Israelis and want to kill them, when this is just racist propaganda.

You can see interviews with top IDF commanders instructing the soldiers to kill everyone and that the only innocent people are the hostages.

What they say is what's being played out.

I wouldn't be suprised if there are plants on this forum.

Famous TikTokers and YouTubers have posted evidence that they were being offered and turned down £5000 to promote pro IDF propaganda.

You can also view the ridiculous Israeli YouTube adverts that must've cost millions to place.

Also listen to the interviews of the hostages and escapees who say that their own soliders shot hostages.

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True.

OP posts:

Weddingpuzzle · 08/11/2023 17:55

And even that support is belittled and condemned. All those people marching, who are in the main marching as a gesture of humanity more than anything else, are subject to really hostile rhetoric - I've seen protestors called pro terrorists, anti semitic, naive, leftist, Hamas supporting, pointless and on and on. Even our politicians are calling it a hate march.

It is a right for a human to look at anti human strategy laid out bare in a mass punishment and say 'I want to show that I don't believe you should treat people that way'. It's nobody else right to say an individual can't/shouldn't use their voice and have an opinion. Even if you don't agree with it. It's a a given that people have to state that Hamas are awful but it doesn't work both ways does it? Supporters of Israel ask people to denounce an anti humanity strategy on one side but accept an anti humanity strategy on the other because...

youngones1 · 08/11/2023 17:38

Tonkerbea · 08/11/2023 17:31

Honestly every thread criticising Israel's approach to warfare is jumped on immediately by pro-Israeli bullshit, rehashing the same paper thin justification for the enormous cost of civilian life.

Had enough, no-one I know in real life is anything less than horrified by what's going on in Gaza, these threads are not reflective of the ground swell of support for ceasefire. Take from that what you will.

Exactly, playing the victim over and over again. The reality is that the Palestinians have far more support worldwide as the genocide Israel is committing is plain to see.

NmeChngeFail · 08/11/2023 17:38

Tonkerbea · 08/11/2023 17:31

Honestly every thread criticising Israel's approach to warfare is jumped on immediately by pro-Israeli bullshit, rehashing the same paper thin justification for the enormous cost of civilian life.

Had enough, no-one I know in real life is anything less than horrified by what's going on in Gaza, these threads are not reflective of the ground swell of support for ceasefire. Take from that what you will.

There are plants everywhere online. I have also seen online information packs with what to say and how to compare it to 9/11 to get the west to sympathise.
Don't talk about pre Oct 7th, don't show videos.

youngones1 · 08/11/2023 17:36

WatTyler · 08/11/2023 17:11

The UN is dominated by anti-Semites and nothing it has to say is worth listening to, and it certainly cuts no ice with Israel. The only genocide being planned is of the Israelis by Hamas. as stated in their founding Covenant: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/
If Hamas released the prisoners tomorrow, returned the bodies of those they have already killed and laid down their arms, the IDF would not kill another Palestinian. They have no wish to kill non-combatant Palestinians, but if Hamas persists in using them as human shields, it is inevitable.
Hamas will not give up, so Israel will have to destroy them.
There will be no ceasefire.

Perhaps Israel should release the thousands of Palestinian hostages/ prisoners they took before October first?

Parkingt111 · 08/11/2023 17:34

Exactly
The IDF must be the most incompetent army in the world to kill 136 children a day without trying to

UN's Guterres: Gaza deaths show something "clearly wrong" with Israel operation

Tonkerbea · 08/11/2023 17:31

Honestly every thread criticising Israel's approach to warfare is jumped on immediately by pro-Israeli bullshit, rehashing the same paper thin justification for the enormous cost of civilian life.

Had enough, no-one I know in real life is anything less than horrified by what's going on in Gaza, these threads are not reflective of the ground swell of support for ceasefire. Take from that what you will.